Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[darkstarpoet1]

OK. For the sake of intelligent debate and discussion, let's work with Isaac's numbers as a starting off point (since he's the only one so far to give some rates he'd prefer to see).

30 days (1 month) @ 6 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
|
V
180 hours = 50 levels
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V
3.6 hours = 1 level

When it phrased as "reach cap in a month" it seems reasonable, but when you actually break it down to the level per hour, you can see how steep that actually is. You need essentially 4 hours of free time every day devoted to FFXIV just to get a single level.

Perhaps we can increase that rate? Or maybe have better rates depending on the circumstances and content the player is participating in? Should a player doing caravan escorts for 2 hours earn as many levels as a character fighting hard mobs for 2 hours?

i'm inclined to agree with his one month to cap honestly. sure a casual will take longer and a hardcore will take less, but it's a mmo and not a race to the finish. i'm more of a believer in a month based on a 3-4 hours a day idea than 6-8 though. either way i would love to see the pace slowed down some, but not to the point of it taking the fun out of the game itself.

[Sorel]

OK. For the sake of intelligent debate and discussion, let's work with Isaac's numbers as a starting off point (since he's the only one so far to give some rates he'd prefer to see).

30 days (1 month) @ 6 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
|
V
180 hours = 50 levels
|
V
3.6 hours = 1 level

When it phrased as "reach cap in a month" it seems reasonable, but when you actually break it down to the level per hour, you can see how steep that actually is. You need essentially 4 hours of free time every day devoted to FFXIV just to get a single level.

Perhaps we can increase that rate? Or maybe have better rates depending on the circumstances and content the player is participating in? Should a player doing caravan escorts for 2 hours earn as many levels as a character fighting hard mobs for 2 hours?

i'm inclined to agree with his one month to cap honestly. sure a casual will take longer and a hardcore will take less, but it's a mmo and not a race to the finish. i'm more of a believer in a month based on a 3-4 hours a day idea than 6-8 though. either way i would love to see the pace slowed down some, but not to the point of it taking the fun out of the game itself.

Using DarkstarPoet's numbers:

30 days (1 month) @ 3 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
|
V
90 hours = 50 levels
|
V
1.8 hours = 1 level

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

[Majidah]

Using DarkstarPoet's numbers:

30 days (1 month) @ 3 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
|
V
90 hours = 50 levels
|
V
1.8 hours = 1 level

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

Leveling differs on how much EXP you get from the mob and how high your chains get.
Leveling differs also on how much EXP you need to level up (example: level 1, 100 exp. level 50, 50k exp).

What you wrote isn't an average. It follows a flawed logic.

[Sorel]

Leveling differs on how much EXP you get from the mob and how high your chains get.
Leveling differs also on how much EXP you need to level up (example: level 1, 100 exp. level 50, 50k exp).

What you wrote isn't an average. It follows a flawed logic.

No. I never said it was an average. And it's not what is currently existing in FFXIV right now.

I'm think we are misunderstanding each other. My initial post (about 3 pages ago) is based on the premiss that a maximum rate of leveling that the community is comfortable with needs to be established. From there, the community needs to discuss whether or not certain circumstances and/or content should have differing rates. For example, being in a party is a circumstance. Completing NPC quests is content. Should a solo player gain as many levels from 2 hours of completing NPC quests as a player in a party fighting hard mobs? What about easy mobs? What about mobs powerful enough to one-shot kill?

Those are the types of questions (and answers) that would be extremely constructive to the Development Team.

[darkstarpoet1]

Using DarkstarPoet's numbers:

30 days (1 month) @ 3 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
|
V
90 hours = 50 levels
|
V
1.8 hours = 1 level

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

well there lies more issues once you get into details such as there. i was using this as more of an optimal sp per hour tme frame. if you kill mobs lower than you then you get less, solo gets less, and other non optimal sp per hour would lengthen the time frame. that's why i used the lower time is because if you said 6-8 hours at optimal sp then a solo or casual player would take 12-14 hours instead when it came to ranking up.

as far as the sp it should be the same optimal sp whether you are crafting, fighting, or gathering at your optimal range. i have always felt in a mmo your optimal sp per hour should be in a party or there would be no reason for people to party with each other. i think parties should always be the preferred when playing a multi player game as that is why you get into a game with other people. i understand some prefer to solo, but i do not think they should ever get the same sp as a group. they also shouldn't be punished and get 1/5 of the sp a group does either. there should always be a balance between solo/grouping and i do not know exactly what the balance should be, but they are not equal.

i know even using my lower estimate that hardcores like myself would run out of things to do, but in all honestly we always will. i was more looking at a time frame in which no matter your playstyle you would be able to see an increase in your ranks. i always try to look in a more third person view to see how what i want will affect others.

[Sorel]

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

well there lies more issues once you get into details such as there. i was using this as more of an optimal sp per hour tme frame. if you kill mobs lower than you then you get less, solo gets less, and other non optimal sp per hour would lengthen the time frame. that's why i used the lower time is because if you said 6-8 hours at optimal sp then a solo or casual player would take 12-14 hours instead when it came to ranking up.

as far as the sp it should be the same optimal sp whether you are crafting, fighting, or gathering at your optimal range. i have always felt in a mmo your optimal sp per hour should be in a party or there would be no reason for people to party with each other. i think parties should always be the preferred when playing a multi player game as that is why you get into a game with other people. i understand some prefer to solo, but i do not think they should ever get the same sp as a group. they also shouldn't be punished and get 1/5 of the sp a group does either. there should always be a balance between solo/grouping and i do not know exactly what the balance should be, but they are not equal.

So, if I may put some words into your mouth ...

Optimal/Maximum Rate "A" = 1.8 hours/level

• Full Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Crafting Higher Level Items
• Gathering Higher Level Materials

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

• Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Crafting Lower Level Items
• Gathering Lower Level Materials
• Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc)

This is a very simplistic outline. Rate "B" right now is a catch-all. Input from the rest of the community would help flesh this out into a level-rate schedule that everyone could be comfortable with, and the the Development Team can implement for us.

[darkstarpoet1]

So, if I may put some words into your mouth ...

Optimal/Maximum Rate "A" = 1.8 hours/level

• Full Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Crafting Higher Level Items
• Gathering Higher Level Materials

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

• Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Crafting Lower Level Items
• Gathering Lower Level Materials
• Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc)

This is a very simplistic outline. Rate "B" right now is a catch-all. Input from the rest of the community would help flesh this out into a level-rate schedule that everyone could be comfortable with, and the the Development Team can implement for us.

in a general gist yes.

the optimal level would be the types of things i was referring to for optimal sp. when you get into sub b though there's some issues that have to be taken into consideration

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

* Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs - these should be a sliding scale. the lower the mob the less sp you will get per kill, therefore, less overall sp per hour.

* Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs - same as above on a sliding scale.

* Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs - this to me should be in a1 because you are still putting in the effort to fight higher mobs, therefore, should get higher sp per kill, but with less people the sp per hour would be decreased.

* Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs - this is more along the lines i look at with farming. the sp would be pretty low because of the low risk/low reward issues.

* Crafting Lower Level Items - same as the battle classes scales down the farther below you that you get.

* Gathering Lower Level Materials - same as the battle classes scales down the farther below you that you get.

* Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc) - this one can become complicated because there are muliple different types of quests available. here's more of a rough outline of how they should be ranked on the type, but these are just opinions.

1 storyline quests
2 primals
3 class quests
4 company quests
5 leves
6 behesting
7 caravan
8 side quests

these would have to be on a sliding scale and the time taken to perform each quest should be a factor in deciding the amount of sp gained per quest.

edit: the issue with putting on a time frame once you get into the second subgroup is you have to take into consideration of a risk/reward system. if i am rank 40 what sp per hour should i get doing 35, 30, 20, and 10 level mobs? you can't put a set rate on them overall because each would have to be different because i am taking more risks the higher the level project i am taking on.