[dev1228] New stat point system; discussion, feedback, suggestions, etc.

[Shoopdadoopdoop]

Customization of stats to the degree that existed at launch was complete nonsense. Being able to change your STR from 20 to 150 and see (maybe) 15 points damage return was broken. New stat conversions, new gear, and new class norms for attributes has evened the playing field and made us value our progress more than ever.

I post this thread in fear of what will come with the revival of custom stats.

I hope that the developer's add a system similar to merit points, personally. I know, I know. This isn't FFXI, blah blah blah. And seeing as we are due for a cap raise within 12 months it seems silly to suggest such a system. But giving us stat points to allocate after every level ON TOP of the points that are already being distributed when we ding makes the system of progressing through levels unnecessarily complicated.

To me, it makes more sense to hold off on these customizable points until we reach the cap, whatever it may be. Doing this will not only give players at cap an incentive other than materia/primals to login and find a party, but it will also deepen our immersion with our characters. These points should remain static across all classes/jobs and should take the amount of experience needed to reach Lv.51 to earn. They should work on the exact same scaling system as FFXI's did, where each point is worth more than the last. A cap raise could just render us unable to earn more points until we reach said cap again, it doesn't necessarily have to restrict implimentation.


Stats should mean something. If a level 30 lancer is getting +4 str from leveling up to 31, then how does it make sense to allow him to spend 3 more points of his choice on str? Players will end up stacking a single stat until 50, and stats will be the same mishmash system they were before. It wont matter if you have +20 str or +20 attack power on your lance because you'll have so much str piled up it wont affect return at all.


I'm not saying that a system that allows allocation after every (or every few) levels cannot be balanced. But with the stats as they are now (fragile in their functionality), why convolute the system further?

And I admit, the idea of being able to farm 10 levels worth of exp on my conjurer and devote it all to +healing potency just sounds so cool that I had to suggest this on the forums.


tl;dr: Don't overdo custom stat allocation, keep the values small and make us care about our parameters. Wishing for a system similar to FFXI where all attributes (and certain skill augmentations) are available to Lv.50 players after earning a certain amount of experience points.

[AdvancedWind]

Customization of stats to the degree that existed at launch was complete nonsense. Being able to change your STR from 20 to 150 and see (maybe) 15 points damage return was broken.

And that's why we won't get as many stat points as before, precisely to avoid this.

But giving us stat points to allocate after every level ON TOP of the points that are already being distributed when we ding makes the system of progressing through levels unnecessarily complicated.

...Exactly how? Is it that hard to add a few stat points to the attributes you want? Heck, there's a shitton of games out there that do the same thing, I can't understand how anyone can think this is complicated.

To me, it makes more sense to hold off on these customizable points until we reach the cap, whatever it may be. Doing this will not only give players at cap an incentive other than materia/primals to login and find a party, but it will also deepen our immersion with our characters.

Again, why. What's the point of "limiting customization to the cap"? This falls into the belief that "the cap" is for whatever reason more important than everything else and it's completely pointless to even try to improve your character's performance or uniqueness before that point. Also, wtf this has to do with immersion?

These points should remain static across all classes/jobs and should take the amount of experience needed to reach Lv.51 to earn. They should work on the exact same scaling system as FFXI's did, where each point is worth more than the last. A cap raise could just render us unable to earn more points until we reach said cap again, it doesn't necessarily have to restrict implimentation.

Doing it the way you proposed would simply give anyone who got to the cap before raises an unfair advantage. They can have an "augmented" level 53 character while reaching for the new cap, for example, while a newcomer would first have to reach the new cap to even start augmenting. Of course they can just have it be unlocked at 50 and then anyone can start working on it instead of getting XP. Isn't that how it works in XI?

In any case, customizing your stats as you level up and gain a new layer of customization when you reach the cap is not mutually exclusive; you *CAN* add stat points as you level up and then *ALSO* add Merit points or whatever new customization method at the cap.

Stats should mean something. If a level 30 lancer is getting +4 str from leveling up to 31, then how does it make sense to allow him to spend 3 more points of his choice on str? Players will end up stacking a single stat until 50, and stats will be the same mishmash system they were before.

Dem stat caps, how do they work?

It wont matter if you have +20 str or +20 attack power on your lance because you'll have so much str piled up it wont affect return at all.

Read what I said earlier: It's going to be a fairly small pool of points to distribute instead of craploads of useless stats like it was on release.

tl;dr: Don't overdo custom stat allocation, keep the values small and make us care about our parameters.

Don't worry, they're doing exactly that.

[Shoopdadoopdoop]

Says you... they haven't said anything specific about this system, other than that its a revival of an old system.


An old system that sucked hard.

[AdvancedWind]

Says you... they haven't said anything specific about this system, other than that its a revival of an old system.


An old system that sucked hard.

Nope, says Yoshi-P. There's dev posts and Reinhart translations already confirming that it will be

A - Separated by class.

B - You will only start getting points to allocate after a certain level.

C - The number of points will be fairly small, so they can keep it balanced and avoid someone dumping it all into a single stat.


Which is nothing like the old system.

[AdvancedWind]

And of course, source before you even ask. Because I'm such a nice person.

Yep, it will be possible to manually distribute attribute points in 1.20. It'll be possible to allocate attribute points manually once you're above a certain level, but since there were balance adjustments made in 1.19, you will not be able to allocate as many points as in the past.

[grandm]

i just don't see the need for a point allocation system, we have materia

[AdvancedWind]

i just don't see the need for a point allocation system, we have materia

Materia is harder to acquire, is tied to your gear, you cannot easily change it depending on what you plan to do (you have to make several repeated gear pieces for every stat you may want to change, which is costly and time consuming), and has the upside of not only being "stronger", but also give effects that cannot be obtained by plain stat allocation.

The allocation itself allows you to give some boost to a desired stat and let you easily change these bonuses according to the sittuation and class without having to carry multiple gear sets or spend loads of gil on materia. However, you can only increase base stats and you're not able to get +50PIE +50MND + 280HP at the same time like multiple materia melding allows you to.

I fail to see how it's harmful to have both.

[HoolieWho]

i just don't see the need for a point allocation system, we have materia

I agree completely. Want to tweak your stats for an encounter? Change some of your gear.

When every stat in the game has a benefit when high and a detriment when low for every class, then I might get on board with stat point allocation. But even then, I don't like the idea of changing your stat allocation from encounter to encounter.

Since stat allocation appears to be making a comeback, I hope it is a very small point total.

[grandm]

i didn't say or think its harmful. i just don't see the point in it, as you pointed out stat allocation will only add a tiny boost to stats, and won't even start till level 30. most ppl will aspire to materia or a good set of U/U gear for endgame and the stat points will be lost, drown out by the effects of other means of enhancing stats. its not that i'm against the system coming back, i'm just not sure its needed

[AdvancedWind]

i didn't say or think its harmful. i just don't see the point in it, as you pointed out stat allocation will only add a tiny boost to stats, and won't even start till level 30. most ppl will aspire to materia or a good set of U/U gear or endgame and the stat points will be lost, drown out by the effects of other means of enhancing stats. its not that i'm against the system coming back, i'm just not sure its needed

Level 30? Now that's something I haven't read. Even if it is, let's look at it this way:

You're a gladiator, you're partying. Tanking stuff and all that. You put +15 on your VIT, allowing you to tank better. 2 hours later, the party disbands and you want to level up a bit more or solo guildleves. Bam, you take these 15 points from VIT and put it on STR in just a few clicks, allowing you to kill stuff slightly faster. Then, for whatever reason you switch to Archer, and it automatically remembers you had + 15 DEX set for that class.

If you wanted to do that with materia, you'd need 3 different melded gear.

This is hardly game breaking, will surely please all the min-maxers out there and, as I've just shown, pretty useful.

I'd expect you'd have a bit more points than that at 50 so it is something that makes enough of a difference to push your desired build a bit further, as well.

Having trouble evading Ifrit's moves as a DD? Put points on VIT to increase your HP. Not being hit at all? Crank up that STR and kick it's ass. Missing too much? DEX+, baby! All easily accomplished by a few clicks, assuming they also learned that the previous system's cooldown was retarded.

It's indeed not "needed" as much as it is a very nice bonus and, aside from cookie cutter builds that will plague every damn leveling system anyways, does help making your character a bit more unique, even if it's just because you like to have a bit more VIT and the other guy prefers more STR.