When eureka dies

[odintius]

I find the gearing/materia rewards boring to begin with , I'm better off getting the new city starter gear from vendors for when 5.0 come out and stick to just doing story at this point. /Shrugs

[Vstarstruck]

The level sync with friends? you could still help to spwan NM faster, just don't be in the same party so they can get Xp properly or become outside healer. Once Fate pops join them. So there are ways around this issue.

This is a player work around to a bad design. You want to see full details where I draw my conclusion? be careful what you wish for.

First off, it is easy to see you have a bias in this diadem 3.0 place of liking it, how much it effects what you say is .. average? like this player work around of a bad design I pointed out. You can still like something but admit it is heavily flawed.

For the solo thing, it simply takes too much time to kill something. You said you soloed to level 5, how long did that take? how long would it take a healer or tank to do? Maybe one tank is OP compared to the next. I do not have the answers to this but this points out your bias in you not going into all these details or what job you even did to solo to level 5 on. What if the person only has healer? Only likes healing on MMOs? what about them that would like a relic, then gets presented with this frontloaded content to progress on relic?

With that said, I think you are claiming "realize that you are dramatizing " because of said bias. You could not even explain why you see it existing, just claim it is there. So I am confused you sit here and tell me what a strong argument is, and yet you do not do it yourself.

"yet I think that for being content that has been out less than a month and thinking its terrible because it's not to their liking is childish." Again this shows your bias, or maybe you do not understand the fact some people know what they like to know if they will like it or not in the future. Sure some people change their prospective, however there is some that don't some people know themselves better then others. I am a bit shocked you suggested it has not been out long enough for people to know if they like it or not. There is not much there, clearly you should be able to accept some will know if they do not like the place after 1 hour of play, speaking of which:

If many people do not like it with 1 hour of play it is a failure. You know that saying about first impressions? This means SE failed to give a good first impression, so even if you like it, you should be able to admit this.

We know you can't please everyone, that is inevitability, however having 0%-60% of the people like something is a failure.

Lets examine this:
https://youtu.be/QF29EvN9yc4

I do like he tries to be neutral or explaining to accept "the other side" but every "pro" or "equal" arguments I have a counter for.

So they start off why people should not compare to diadem because of similar does not mean same. The issue I have with this is that the different dungeons can distinguish them selves and trails even more so. For example trying to 100% up time this though this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7N5...ature=youtu.be
and is drastically different to this:
https://youtu.be/ek_FAZTuHWU?list=PL...RgKLfsz2-8GmUp

So you can't really use the idea x dungeon is like y dungeon because all you do is kill things. How you do it is drastically different, is is what you do is what matters. (And the fact he did could not really explain how the different crafters are different but can be the "same" depending on your gear/melds making everything done on same macro or not, with crafting classes they are slightly imbalanced, i/e it is easiest to HQ goldsmith crafts vs the others because of what you have to cross class)

So he went into how one place is based on rng drops and the other not so much and that makes diadem 2.0 differ from 3.0, I do not think so. How items are gained has no point in your ability to play the content or how one finds the content fun. When I look at diadem 3.0 I do not look at the end rewards to see if I have fun doing something or not, then I look at the rewards and put to the 2 together to see if it is worth doing (lots of fun, so the rewards don't matter vs bore but I'll do this anyway for the ends justify the means concept, vs I hate said content that leads to only outdated gear) In the end, diadem 3.0 is like diadem 2.0 but without the extra content that came in 2.0 (gathering, big boss, though big boss requirements where an issue, had no relic attached to it, true optional side content) As far as looking what you do in diadem 2.0 as far as progression, it is the same, kill a fate get drops, turn in drops.

I am happy that he pointed out that yoshi-p's statement is not immune to criticism. Saying it reminds you of old MMO is just looking at it though a very narrow prospective (big grind = old school??) First the zone is too small for that feel, you are not giving enough "camps" for each level to truly feel that. With FFXI, you are not brainlessly AoE killing monsters in a party, you are not zerg rushing them. At least back when FFXI was level 75, pre treasures, the common thing to do was have someone with a range attack ability/ throw/ shoot arrow, what have you, and go and pull as people rest for mp. Doing this gave a mini break and allowed for convos and so on. In FFXI however it is just rapid brainless button mashing, so trying to compare this to old school MMOs is very confusing to me. The only thing I know how it can compare to anything "old" is FFXI's abyssea and FFXI abyssea is drastically different then what built FFXI in the first place. This is why I throw out "blind following" because I was trying touch on the concept of having a narrow viewpoint on the situation and not a bigger scope, using feelings too much to interfere with a subjective analysis. This is further supported when people stating this, even the guy in this vid, can't detail how exactly it is like FFXI or other old school MMOs where I sit here explaining in detail why it does not, and thus a simply a narrow viewing of the situation. Even in the video he said "even if I never played FFXI, I would like .. (do i have to use the name...) "Eureka" for the same reasons I liked FFXI's gameplay" suggesting the gameplay of the 2 are the same, when they factually very different.

Then he goes in stating a pro, you only need to grind once. I assume this is for the leveling thing but I am not sure if I call it a pro or not. It is simply there apart of the bigger system, and if you had to grind what we see as levels say for different jobs, it could be seen as a con, getting people to play it more by leveling different jobs. OFC this means the entire system would have to be changed. My point is we do not know if it is a true con or pro as we do not have any alternatives to compare it to. A system having to level muti times on different jobs could been a better system depending how the full content ends up being designed around it, just like how the current system is designed around doing it once.

Comparing it to light grind is simply wrong because we are not deep enough in the expansion for SB relics to e getting equivalent steps such as that yet. However, I would still rather complete HW relic then do the current steps to 355 and repeating for another because its simply too dull. You have to do this one area for all these different steps for relic, where ARR/HW relics can have a bunch of different options. Going back to the nostalgia pro, the music also does not cut it to minimize the boredem. Why not give FFXi music for somethings or remix versions of it? instead we just hear this receptive music for the different fates. Another problem with comparing this to old MMOs in general, those long grinds felt more worth it because items lasted, not doing "new content" for outdated gear, and will be forever outdated in max 1 year and 9 months as we will be entering 5.0 given the past track record. So in the end, this is just for glams, this whole leveling system, the leveling system is useless. (unlike PoTD where it is done right)

The SB relics are too frontloaded, too much presenting players with a mountain. Again it had a lot of problems giving good first impressions. This makes it too much time to start having prograss on (unlike ARR/SB relics you can make prograss at them from start to finish, 15-30 mins at a time, that is if you take out some of the bad fates for ARR relics, the kind that you have to camp to know it exists, like upper that dies in 5 seconds. Still even with that, you can park your character there, afk, and not worry about auto kicks, or having carpal tunnel issues.

Next pro, talking about how "chill it is" this is a con, this is why it is so damn boring. However with the leave and enter when you want, you still have significant start up time to make progress, make a party, find people, get to spot, sit afk, whatever.

His con, this could been addressed with better design, I/E it could have its own action and progress system like pvp/PoTD before BS update.

His pro 'it is immersive" no idea what this means, but pretty sure it isn't. The zone in general is just there running fate to fate, gets dull seeing the same pathways after 4 hours or more. About needing a party to go anywhere, you can say that for any current dungeon. You are also untouchable being 4 + levels above the current area you are in.

His con, FFXIV has this problem as a whole, SE should of known 144 players is too much for the servers to handle. Even after the update it is hard to kill adds or mass monsters in the fate train. I do not know how you have so much postpone and it be outright broken like this.

Pro: "promotes community cooperation" I agree it is good to have, however in diadem 3.0's case it came out as an effect how bad it is. Without level sync and other features that it should been in the content, people are forced to fate train to exp gain off things way too high for them because it is so hard to find 8 people same level and work to pop something specific and low level. So between that and the fact how small the zone it is, you are going to find such cooperation no matter how good or bad the content is. The next comment about hearing "git gud" or figure it out your self, happens more and more as the content ages, so you can't say it will always be positive, that is just the effect of being new. Also this place is the first time I seen toxicity in a semi mass scale within days of release (MPK) Also I see little cooperation when it comes to add control with a fate being up, just like anywhere else.

The lockbox system is very badly made in general (i/e too much inventory bloat) it would been much better if we got the amount of boxes/10 while it being a currency to buy items. (even after the update, still bad)

Pro: already addressed the FFXI thing, in short, no it does not, not by a long shot if you get past oooooohhh looook grind exp. Oh I forgot about commenting on the "handholding" and guidance. Without having a quest log at all, like FFXI had, I thought the game was bugged and people losing their mind over a quest to do. There was no indication you where on a quest or need do something. Again this goes back with FFXIV's style with giving markers. I do not need them, but I need an indication I needed to do something for a quest??? no quest log??? The 17 quest I did myself, as that point I figured out how it worked and what it expected. I did not need no help for that one.

I would love an "open world grind" sadly diadem 3.0 is not that, missed the mark there.

"pro it is optional" you lose this argument when you have a relic fully dependent on it. You had options how to do with other relics, why not this one? Yeah I get it in the very end relics are optional, but if you like doing relics and wanting something to do, this becomes non optional (9 hw relics, 2 ARR relics, 1 FFXI relic, 1 ffxi emp weapon and I hate this place, 0 SB relics even though I can get one after converting the things, I just dot want to bother with doing all those unnecessary clicks. I am only getting to 20 for future proofing, I have no interest in the current content.)

Also final note, I love talking to people, it should be clear, it is why I am on the forums at all, This place is boring, I just afk here as I post this. So in conclusion, there is nothing good about this place, hearing it was delayed twice or more, for no content, 10/10. beta content is ok, but don't release beta with relic progression on top of it so late in the expansion.

I am level 20, 2798 Anemos crystals, 62 protean crystals, 1513 lockboxes( handed some in) this enough to experience for you to accept I still hate it and still call it diadem 3.0? I have no intent at the moment of turning this in a relic or whatever because all the clicking is not worth a glam to me. (or the massive inventory bloat that comes from the lockboxes)

[ManuelBravo]

This is a player work around to a bad design. You want to see full details where I draw my conclusion? be careful what you wish for. ( too much to quote so I will refer people to read your full explanation )..... (good points) ... ( nice use of video for facts shows you actually did your research...)...(will break it down once I have some time...

First off, it is easy to see you have a bias in this diadem 3.0 place of liking it, how much it effects what you say is .. average? like this player work around of a bad design I pointed out. You can still like something but admit it is heavily flawed.

I am level 20, 2798 Anemos crystals, 62 protean crystals, 1513 lockboxes( handed some in) this enough to experience for you to accept I still hate it and still call it diadem 3.0? I have no intent at the moment of turning this in a relic or whatever because all the clicking is not worth a glam to me. (or the massive inventory bloat that comes from the lockboxes)

While I'm glad you actually took the time to do your research you seemed to missed some bits of information. I had mentioned before, not just to you, if your going to quote me at least do it properly and read the conversation. IF you would have read it properly you would have realized that I am not bias and agree and have mention things that need improvement. While I can go trough everyone of your points I'm only on forums during work time as a time killer. You make very good points, however misquoting or omitting quotes to prove a point is very misleading and irrational. I believe Eureka has a lot of potential, however I believe SE just like many other companies have used Eureka as small change out of the ordinary that many players may not agree is enjoyable. From a logical and open minded perspective it still is too soon to judge it as a whole. The Eureka Arc is work in progress and at the very least as consumers we can cut SE some slack and give them time to impress us. Once I have some time I will be more than happy to rebuttal on your points. I will give you credit where is do as well. " Look forward to it" :P

[Vstarstruck]

While I'm glad you actually took the time to do your research you seemed to missed some bits of information. I had mentioned before, not just to you, if your going to quote me at least do it properly and read the conversation. IF you would have read it properly you would have realized that I am not bias and agree and have mention things that need improvement. While I can go trough everyone of your points I'm only on forums during work time as a time killer. You make verygood points, however misquoting or omitting quotes to prove a point is very misleading and irrational. I believe Eureka has a lot of potential, however I believe SE just like many other companies have used Eureka as small change out of the ordinary that many players may not agree is enjoyable. From a logical and open minded perspective it still is too soon to judge it as a whole. The Eureka Arc is work in progress and at the very least as consumers we can cut SE some slack and give them time to impress us. Once I have some time I will be more than happy to rebuttal on your points. I will give you credit where is do as well. " Look forward to it" :P

I did, and I explained why it reflects said bias, I am sorry you can't see that even after I explained why. Well.. I do admit now, it was more though analysts of what I said to pick up, so let me fully explain.

You are basically explaining how you deal with the shortcoming. Basically what you said shouldn't be up to the playerbase to get that work around. Also you are expecting people to sac their progress, i/e high level healer on the outside does not gain any of those small currencies for helping a friend's party who is low level not touching the monsters. So because of you trying to come up with a player solution to bad design, I may keep in the back of my head for possible bias in other posts. You are acting like I did not read your posts at all when I have, and that should been implied I was giving references to all your posts without fully quoting them. I still feel the comment was fitting, despite you explaining partially why you do not think so.

Though I may refrain to comment further so you have time to go though all that, I do wish it not get lost.

Your main point:
OFC it does, anything does with work put into it. However with 17 months and all the delays we got, I expect something way more polished at this point then what we got. not having level sync for this place after all those delays is a HUGE joke in itself. My main point for the idea of trying something new, and pushing a beta on us, is YOU DO NOT ATTACH a relic to something like that. You do not attach something more mainstream to depend on something more "beta" testing so late in an expansion. Look at PoTD when it came out, all that was an alt way to get a decent high weapon, and it worked, well.

[Mizunoko]

What are trusts? lol

[Sarynth]

What are trusts? lol

I'm assuming you're asking about the trust npcs from ffxi. Basically they are npc s from xi's story that you can summon via the magic menu and would fight alongside you and even do skillchains or magic bursts. Quests would unlock new ones and allow you to summon up to five to make a full party. They also had jobs and whatnot so you could have say tezen from chains of promathia and he'd use samurai skills and stuff. Trusts basically allowed people to solo group content when they couldn't find others to play with.

[Mizunoko]

I'm assuming you're asking about the trust npcs from ffxi. Basically they are npc s from xi's story that you can summon via the magic menu and would fight alongside you and even do skillchains or magic bursts. Quests would unlock new ones and allow you to summon up to five to make a full party. They also had jobs and whatnot so you could have say tezen from chains of promathia and he'd use samurai skills and stuff. Trusts basically allowed people to solo group content when they couldn't find others to play with.

Thank you for the context. I kinda needed it as i only ever played a xbox trial of ff11 for like a week and got to like lvl 5 at most i think. It was very very long ago so i basically don't know anything about ff11. So basically its kinda like how you can use your squadron npc's for some dungeons?