Make Hall of the Novice completion required for entering Sastasha

[Ameela]

There's no reason for a new player to enter a dungeon if they don't know what their role in a party is and how to perform it at an adequate level, they're supposed to be done before you enter your first dungeon anyway so I don't see the problem with making them required.

I know the story already directs you to the Hall of the Novice but it doesn't explicitly tell you to actually go in and do the lessons, so a new player (who might even be skipping dialog and not know what they're doing there in the first place) might have no idea what to do there and be on their way.

[Paladinleeds]

I would consider a couple of changes.
1) Make Hall of the Novice level 10
2) Require it to be complete to enter either a guildhest or a dungeon

Potentially this could be retroactively applied as well (for those doing the jump potion, they still have to do it), so as to make sure everyone has done it and at least up to speed. I mean for those like me who have played plenty MMOs before this, it'd just be a minor sidestep to get it done and back into dungeons. I shouldn't fail any of them so it should be a quick and painless experience for me.

[MistakeNot]

I would consider a couple of changes.
1) Make Hall of the Novice level 10
2) Require it to be complete to enter either a guildhest or a dungeon

That would require some other changes.
As it is tanks can't complete Hall of the Novice until they have done their level 15 class quest - because one of the tank exercises in Hall of the Novice requires the use of the skill they learn from that class quest. (The skill is the tank's ranged attack, used for pulling.)

[Paladinleeds]

That would require some other changes.
As it is tanks can't complete Hall of the Novice until they have done their level 15 class quest - because one of the tank exercises in Hall of the Novice requires the use of the skill they learn from that class quest. (The skill is the tank's ranged attack, used for pulling.)

That's a fair point. Perhaps then it would be worth starting guildhests at level 15 then? As well as making it so Shield Lob/Tomahawk are unlocked once you get the level (rather then completing the class quest). Or maybe make SL/TH a reward from the level 10 class quest (same as guildhest starts), and give a tip in the HotN to do your class and job quests, as it's very important (how you'd lock the DPS/healer ones behind a class quest though I don't know)?

[BillyKaplan]

I'll add that it also helps ensure that people are well geared when they go in there. I mean, you can't make them actually put the gear on, but at least you're giving it to them.

(how you'd lock the DPS/healer ones behind a class quest though I don't know)?

The same way they did it for tanks. The difference is there'd be no specific lesson to be learned from that other than telling people to do their gosh-darned class quests, whereas tanks needed it for a more immediate reason

[CainCrimson]

When you say 'at an adequate level' do you mean basic logic of group content? Or expecting intermediate level performance?

[Okamimaru]

When you say 'at an adequate level' do you mean basic logic of group content? Or expecting intermediate level performance?

I think basic knowledge of gameplay should be enough... after that each dungeon gives you a little more mechanics wise for ARR dungeons anyway... but learning how to not stand in Orange and healers shouldn't try tanking should be taught before actually having to do so in group content.

[MsQi]

I'll add that it also helps ensure that people are well geared when they go in there. I mean, you can't make them actually put the gear on, but at least you're giving it to them.

There is a quest early on that requires you to have an ilevel of 5, that probably a lot of people didn't even notice. I don't think there are anymore gearchecks until lvl 50 hard content. They could put more of that along the way just so people are mindful of it.

I guess most people don't do the novice stuff because they don't realize what it rewards. The ring alone is worth the time spent.

[Hasrat]

Bad players will always be bad players. Forcing them into a tutorial won't change that. The only ones to benefit from this are the ones that will have voluntarily gone through training without the mandate.

[Rongway]

Bad players will always be bad players. Forcing them into a tutorial won't change that.

Yes, but.

When the new tank starts doing a single target rotation and ignoring the other two mobs, it won't be the first time someone has told him to use Flash/Overpower to get hate on everything, and maybe he'll listen instead of ignoring it, because it sounds vaguely familiar from the Hall of the Novice lesson on AoEing.

Some people will ignore advice simply because they're jerks, and we can't do anything about them. But some will ignore advice because it's new, or because maybe they think the advice the game gives is not how players actually do things, or conversely they think a player is giving advice that isn't actually how the game works. But when the game and a player both give the same advice, they might listen.