What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Tsumdere]

After obtaining 8 relic weapons and two armour sets, I think I have enough Eureka under my belt to formulate an opinion on it.

I hate it. It's strange because I am having fun doing it... but when I step back and ask why I am having fun, it's because I'm standing there AFK and playing another game and getting the shiny weapons anyways. Either that, or I'm catching up on months worth of RP! : ^)

Seriously though, this is very bad content. It's a shame because the world is beautiful and it could have so much potential with a variety of unique quests and mini-games, but it is completely wasted on this abysmal chaining system.
And no - do not say "mehmehmeh you're playing it wrong - chain mobs casual n00b instant gratification REEEEE" because that is frankly worse, and if I could not AFK FATE train then you bet I would have dropped this way before level 20.

I love the grind. If it's interesting. Eureka is not that.

[Vidu]

Different NMs have different mechanics and attack patterns. Ignoring that while stating the same thing for Byakko and Shinryu/-whatever other comparison you made- is a double standard, in my eyes. At least, it's a subjective view on it, as you and you only decided to draw the line where you drew it.
You make a difference between Susano and Ramuh? You make a difference between The Temple of the Fist and Snowcloak? But you don't make a difference between Serket and Bombadeel? Why is that? (I know why, but my point is that it's a subjective reason.)

Let me still mention it: With Susano and Ramuh, With Temple of the Fist and Snowcloak I get to see and handle those mechanics.
With NMs in Eureka I have to be lucky to see the boss and get a raise after an AoE that I couldnt see because it wouldnt load/show killed me.

I actually get to experience mechanics in a fight like Shinryu - in Eureka? Its zerged down while everything on the screen is culling.
I was also mainly thinking in terms of EX-Modes, with more complexe and intresting mechanics - something you cant really do when you've got potentially 144 people instead of 8.
If Eureka would have been for, lets say 24 people max there could have been actually meanigful mechanics. With 144 though...
Thats why I'm making a difference there - but yeah, I know you know that, so I dont understand why you just brush it off.

A second point to consider: the mainpart of Eureka (when it comes to time spent on it) isnt fighting NM but mechanicless mobs... its a bit the same with dungeons aswell, granted, but thats why I'd consider raids and trials the better example. (We've also had complains about dungeons always being the same for a while now)

[Divinemights]

why are you being so insulting?

Said by the one who label other as white knight, diadem lover and sunk cost fallacy.

If you don’t have anything constructive, don’t reply to me. I am done with you and saving you some posting since you are hitting limit everyday

[Fyce]

Let me still mention it: With Susano and Ramuh, With Temple of the Fist and Snowcloak I get to see and handle those mechanics.
With NMs in Eureka I have to be lucky to see the boss and get a raise after an AoE that I couldnt see because it wouldnt load/show killed me.

I actually get to experience mechanics in a fight like Shinryu - in Eureka? Its zerged down while everything on the screen is culling.
I was also mainly thinking in terms of EX-Modes, with more complexe and intresting mechanics - something you cant really do when you've got potentially 144 people instead of 8.
If Eureka would have been for, lets say 24 people max there could have been actually meanigful mechanics. With 144 though...
Thats why I'm making a difference there - but yeah, I know you know that, so I dont understand why you just brush it off.

A second point to consider: the mainpart of Eureka (when it comes to time spent on it) isnt fighting NM but mechanicless mobs... its a bit the same with dungeons aswell, granted, but thats why I'd consider raids and trials the better example. (We've also had complains about dungeons always being the same for a while now)

So, you think that Serket, Bombadeel and Pazuzu are basically the same thing because... you can't see them.
These monsters have different attack patterns and mechanics do deal with. Serket has a lot of really big AoEs, Bombadeel follows a very specific pattern that you have to know (ie:"after cleave, get away from him"), Pazuzu has 5 or 6 different attacks that you have to know, and spawns adds with different elements than him. But you consider that completly moot because of technical difficulties extremely dependent on the number of people there. And even if they recently changed the culling priorities.

As you wish, but my point still stands: that line you drew is completly subjective. I, for example, do not recognize your argument in my personal experience. I have to fight differently each NMs, regardless of culling issues. That's enough to prove my point.


Note: when I said that I knew, I actually thought that you were going to reference the difficulty of the content, and not technical issues. So I apologize, I actually had no clue and made a wrong assumption.

[BillyKaplan]

So, you think that Serket, Bombadeel and Pazuzu are basically the same thing because... you can't see them.

Let a level 20 player tell you they are the same because at this point the train melts them all down with similar ease. Even the higher level NMs that have supposedly more complex mechanics are simply too long and grueling that they can't have any more complex and therefore interesting mechanics because 1. too many people to coodrinate, can't do stuff like that, you can barely get tanks to tank adds, 2. the deaths alone would make it impossible to down the NM in time. Their mechanics are therefore watered down into patterns that are far more mind-numbing than most other content that at least has going for it the fact you don't need 10 minutes of the same thing to down. Even ex and Savage have several stages in that same time span.

These monsters have different attack patterns and mechanics do deal with. Serket has a lot of really big AoEs, Bombadeel follows a very specific pattern that you have to know (ie:"after cleave, get away from him"), Pazuzu has 5 or 6 different attacks that you have to know, and spawns adds with different elements than him. But you consider that completly moot because of technical difficulties extremely dependent on the number of people there. And even if they recently changed the culling priorities.

The problem with this argument, I feel like, is that you're ignoring the one very simple fact - even assuming any of what you say was really as impressive as you make it out to be (it's really, really not), people have to still get to those high levels. And if the lower levels are as brain dead as most of us agree they are, they're not going to have to figure out that Plague means in and basically anything else Pazuzu does means out (what innovative mechanics, I need a minute). They'll simply leave this game mode alone.

NMs can't have sophisticated mechanics beyond "massive arena-wide damage and tank busters" by virtue of being glorified FATE bosses.

[Vstarstruck]

So, you think that Serket, Bombadeel and Pazuzu are basically the same thing because... you can't see them.
These monsters have different attack patterns and mechanics do deal with. Serket has a lot of really big AoEs, Bombadeel follows a very specific pattern that you have to know (ie:"after cleave, get away from him"), Pazuzu has 5 or 6 different attacks that you have to know, and spawns adds with different elements than him. But you consider that completly moot because of technical difficulties extremely dependent on the number of people there. And even if they recently changed the culling priorities.

As you wish, but my point still stands: that line you drew is completly subjective. I, for example, do not recognize your argument in my personal experience. I have to fight differently each NMs, regardless of culling issues. That's enough to prove my point.


Note: when I said that I knew, I actually thought that you were going to reference the difficulty of the content, and not technical issues. So I apologize, I actually had no clue and made a wrong assumption.

No one cares! you zerg rush, it is the same outcome. One person is no importance, there is no challenge in knowing or not knowing and it is hard to know because the servers lag too much. It is hard to see any kind of marker because there is too many people there. It is just hit the thing, die, hit the thing, die, hit the thing. There is no full wipe because you fail a DPS check like other content, even if other content is really low bar dps checks, people do vote abandon on them time to time.

So you really have no point, there is no "my point still stands" just weak defenses on subpar content, (if you can call such a braindead place content)

Vidu I am wondering if yo saw this?:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4631987
Maybe that is what we are missing this whole time? People like it because there is no reason to push for 100% uptime and very laxed?

[Vidu]

Note: when I said that I knew, I actually thought that you were going to reference the difficulty of the content, and not technical issues. So I apologize, I actually had no clue and made a wrong assumption.

What I mainly wanted to reference wasnt the technical issues but the design issues behind a fight thats fought by up to 144 - I dont even mean that in the way you probably mean "difficulty" but rather in a way of complexety to the fight.
Its meanigful mechanics that are making fights in this game intresting - and you simply can not have them in content with (1) to many people and (2) a not fixed number of people.
Kefka gives the DPS a stack-marker each, so the other 4 people have to coordinate to stack with them. Byakko drops those bombs on 3 people, who need to make sure to stand away from each other. Shinryu breathes his earthbreath at you and you need to drag that not into the group. All of that matters for the success of the fight. Healer checks, tank busters and swaps, dps mechanics and enrage... all of the things that are making content a challenge and therefor intresting.
All of those things cant really happen with large scale FATEs.
Its not about the content being more "difficult" - we dont need to talk Savage here! - its about the content actually being intresting.

...but I feel you dont wanna see that and that we're not gonna come to an agreement here, specially when you're ignoring the point of the core-element still being to fight the boring monsters to spawn the FATEs. Thats okay with me though. I'm happy for everyone who finds some enjoyment, for whatever reason, in Eureka.
Personally, I prefer an engaging 10-minute fight over a 2 minutes FATE-zerg-rush, thats all.

[Altanas]

It sorely needs something to help break up the FATE train culture, even:
a) Implement a Daily Quest Hub at Port Surgate
b) Party Objectives like Diadem 2

Or embrace the FATE train culture, and:
a) expand the NM fights to have lots of adds.

Overall though a rethink of what FF11 zones offered:
a) In FF11 the zones were a lot larger. Imagine the path to Pazuzu being ten times longer and perhaps even having doors to operate but you had to loot the keys - it would feel like an adventure.

Anyone remember how long it took to get to Fafnir, or long it took to get all the way to the Shadowlords Throne room, or even how long it took to get to the top of Castle Ostroja for coffer key parties, or finding the keys to Sea Serpent Grotto. Eureka zones need to be a lot larger too.

The sense of adventure is what people want, with danger which is manageable.

And parties should be given objectives. FF11 was not just openworld mob grinding, or NM/HNM competitions, you had players going to find "secret" or not so secret areas. Parties would go through large zones, dangerous zones, to get to Cloisters or BCNM ("Trial" in FF14 lingo) and the entrance might require "pop items", or go through lesser zones to find those Cermet Machines where they traded items to for weapons/junk.

Eureka has caused the same rift that Abyssea caused to FF11. Players did not want to sit in the same spot grinding mindlessly, as far as I recollected. I remember players being much more engaged and having fun travelling together through large zones with each other to reach their objective. Why is it players rarely complained about walking all the way to Riverne Site or going through Promyvion, but complained when they could just teleport to Abyssea in a tenth of the time.

[Divinemights]

There is a hint from Yoship’s recent interview with level 5. Next phase is going to have an element involves hunting certain NM. Positively, hunting quest where system will randomly player an unique NM on the map

[BillyKaplan]

There is a hint from Yoship’s recent interview with level 5. Next phase is going to have an element involves hunting certain NM. Positively, hunting quest where system will randomly player an unique NM on the map

If I understood what you said, gods I hope not. It'll be like the old daily hunt marks from the alliance billboard or the beast tribes where you had to go for a FATE - both systems that were incriminatingly missing from their HW-onwards iterations.