What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Fyce]

Eureka at 20 plays exactly like it does at 1, and is therefore, to me, just bad design that's unique compared to the rest of the game.

In Eureka, a low level player cannot do anything. You cannot explore the map since it's is very hard due to the fact that you aggro everything, you cannot participate in killing anything as you deal crap damage -which includes trash and NMs-, and you get one-shotted by everything which means that you rely way more on others to give you a raise every 30 seconds. In short, at level 1, you have to be completly carried.

Everything I just said is the complete opposite when you get to high levels. You can move as you wish, you can participate and help killing stuff, few things are actually a threat to you.

So, no, it doesn't "play exactly" the same. It's actually totally different. I don't know how someone can say that you play in an identical way. That's objectively not true.

[Arkdra]

Because it is objectively true? How are you conflating damage numbers to gameplay? The only thing you listed remotely accurate is how stealthy you need to be, and that doesn't actually change at all as you level, just how often you need to be on your toes. It's still the same gameplay at level 1 as it is at 20 and the only difference is how much of it you have to be bothered to do.

[Rokke]

So, no, it doesn't "play exactly" the same. It's actually totally different. I don't know how someone can say that you play in an identical way. That's objectively not true..

lv 1 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.
lv 20 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.

the only tangible difference between 1 and 20 is how fast I can move on the map due to my mounts/access to the aetherites.

[Krotoan]

lv 1 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.
lv 20 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.

the only tangible difference between 1 and 20 is how fast I can move on the map due to my mounts/access to the aetherites.

This is exactly what we all mean by it's the same. I got to both Aetherytes at level 2 because I was exploring as I always do, but couldn't unlock them because.. level 9. Everything was avoidable if I walked behind it or wasn't hurt when I walked near it and I didn't really care if it killed me anyway since I wouldn't lose xp. There's a mechanic in FFXI they're trying to imitate but it lacks the part where the monster RANGE is different if you're lower level, so it just becomes a crappy stealth game with invisible detection ranges that are all the same. Up until level 19 I was doing the same thing every battle: NM battles where I had to stand there and be ineffective till I could LB, getting one shot occasionally because of add cleaves and poorly visible mechanics or NM battles where I was the appropriate level and could do decent damage . Rotation and tactics never changed, just how much I could effectively contribute. I will concede that this is because I was doing the NM train, which is NOT what was intended but it is/was the most efficient and least repetitive way.

It doesn't get easier, or "better" later. It's just less frustrating to get places and I spend less time with my face on the ground during NM battles.

the train has (mostly) brought out the best in the NA community. We were cracking bad pun jokes last night while playing, and I was dodging danger noodles to try and res people (who did the same for me). In the sense of an old style MMO experience where it actually feels like a massively multiplayer game, it absolutely succeeds.

While I agree there is more going on in the chat than usual I'm not encouraged. People are bantering because they're bored and HAVE to communicate to organize the solution we've invented for this area (the NM train). The fact that other players are making the zone enjoyable for us isn't a plus for Eureka . Sure they said we'd have to talk to each other to figure out things but as far as I can see it was for the solutions to the 4 quests. The community has always come together to discuss optimal tactics and hidden mechanics, these just happen to require continued communication during the instance. I'm happy the NA playerbase can come together to help each other and play together but I don't think it was intended or should be viewed as something in the new contents favor.

[Tridus]

While I agree there is more going on in the chat than usual I'm not encouraged. People are bantering because they're bored and HAVE to communicate to organize the solution we've invented for this area (the NM train). The fact that other players are making the zone enjoyable for us isn't a plus for Eureka . Sure they said we'd have to talk to each other to figure out things but as far as I can see it was for the solutions to the 4 quests. The community has always come together to discuss optimal tactics and hidden mechanics, these just happen to require continued communication during the instance. I'm happy the NA playerbase can come together to help each other and play together but I don't think it was intended or should be viewed as something in the new contents favor.

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's not like they planned for the train. It was player creativity to take a dumpster fire and turn it into an instance wide marshmellow roast. I think we can appreciate what the playerbase has been able to create while also acknowledging the issues with the design.

Truth be told, the entire line of reasoning irks me.

I mean, the original argument was that Eureka gets better at higher levels, right? And apparently, what changes between level 1 and 20 is that Eureka plays more like regular content in FFXIV, because you get more convenience (aetherytes/mounts) and the power difference makes the place less dangerous, allowing you to achieve more on your own and travel more freely.

But the danger, inconvenience and group orientation were supposed to be the selling points of the content. Yet it gets better when they are reduced. But they're good. Somehow. I must be missing some very crucial step here, because as it stands, dumping a couple hunts with special spawn conditions into any zone to facilitate "barrens chat" would have been just as good? Or not? I don't really get it.

The other day there was a thread about losing a level due to XP after dying in a disconnect. Sounds like awesome gameplay.

The "selling points" are a lot of things that were gradually removed from MMOs for a reason: they're not actually that good.

[Fyce]

lv 1 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.

Try "nuking down" a Lv.15 enemy when you're Lv.2. You can't. You sit there and wait for others to do it. You actually don't play, because you don't have a choice.

lv 20 -> round up mobs, nuke them down, spawn NM. Eating a hit from a NM my level will one shot me.

Now you are the one killing stuff. You can go wherever you want and start progress on making a NM spawn (ie. Pazuzu).
Except if you like going AFK and wait for others to do the work. But at least now you have the choice.

In both cases, if you get one-shotted by a NM of your level, you're doing something horribly wrong. Besides, that's not even relevant as you most likely not only go for FATEs of your level. At Lv.20 you will be above almost everything, while as a Lv.1, you will not.

the only tangible difference between 1 and 20 is how fast I can move on the map due to my mounts/access to the aetherites.

No it's not. I listed a bunch of things you do differently depending on your level. But it seems you ignored half my post.

[Divinemights]

No it's not. I listed a bunch of things you do differently depending on your level. But it seems you ignored half my post.

No, don't tell them when you are getting way more protean crystals with proper party.
Also don't tell them that it is possible to get more than 1,300 protean crystals within 60 mins if you choose to do chain party instead of NM train.
Please also don't tell them that you are only need to do NM when you are working on relic armor.
This thread only allows one voice and one voice only.
If you are offering advise, you are labelled as Diadem 3.0 lover.
If you are explaining the mechanics, you are labelled as White Knight.
If you said you likes Eureka, apparently you are suffering Sunk-Cost Fallacy.

We also need not to remind them that the best way to show a game company that player base don't like a content is "not doing that content"
Please also not to remind them that only way to punish a subscribed mmorpg is un-subscribe like we did to Blizzard with WoD

[Vstarstruck]

No, don't tell them when you are getting way more protean crystals with proper party.
Also don't tell them that it is possible to get more than 1,300 protean crystals within 60 mins if you choose to do chain party instead of NM train.
Please also don't tell them that you are only need to do NM when you are working on relic armor.
This thread only allows one voice and one voice only.
If you are offering advise, you are labelled as Diadem 3.0 lover.
If you are explaining the mechanics, you are labelled as White Knight.
If you said you likes Eureka, apparently you are suffering Sunk-Cost Fallacy.

We also need not to remind them that the best way to show a game company that player base don't like a content is "not doing that content"
Please also not to remind them that only way to punish a subscribed mmorpg is un-subscribe like we did to Blizzard with WoD

why are you being so insulting?

[Vidu]

No, don't tell them when you are getting way more protean crystals with proper party.
Also don't tell them that it is possible to get more than 1,300 protean crystals within 60 mins if you choose to do chain party instead of NM train.
Please also don't tell them that you are only need to do NM when you are working on relic armor.
This thread only allows one voice and one voice only.
If you are offering advise, you are labelled as Diadem 3.0 lover.
If you are explaining the mechanics, you are labelled as White Knight.
If you said you likes Eureka, apparently you are suffering Sunk-Cost Fallacy.

We also need not to remind them that the best way to show a game company that player base don't like a content is "not doing that content"
Please also not to remind them that only way to punish a subscribed mmorpg is un-subscribe like we did to Blizzard with WoD

I feel you're missing the point of people who voice an opinion against Eureka a little.
You're approaching this as if people are only complaining about it being a grind - a lot of us dont mind a grind. I know I personally dont - done multiple relics, got primal-mounts in ARR and HW when they were current, got my PvP-level up to 50 back when queuetimes were hours long.
The problem I have with Eureka is: Its not fun. I've tried playing it "both ways" - I've tried the FATEs, I've tried the mob-chains. Neither was fun to me - and not because the payoff wasnt great or at least not only because of that but rather because the core-mechanic of standing in one spot and pulling mob after mob after mob (something you're suggesting as the "right way" to play this) isnt fun but boring to me.
I'm happy for you if you feel differently! I dont understand how anyone can find it fun to stand in one spot for an hour and chain-pull mobs, but I suppose my boyfriend cant understand that I like crafting, so classic situation of people liking different things.
I'm happy for you that Eureka is a thing that you like already. But you know what? I'd like to like it too, so I'm trying to explain why thats not the case yet and what could be done to make me like it. The devs will probably never read it, I know - but I know for sure that they wont read it if I dont even type it out.

Please understand that a lot of complains arent about "we're not getting enough crystals" but "getting crystals isnt fun". And getting told "oh you're just playing this content wrong!" isnt helping when the right way to play the content still isnt fun because the core-element isnt engaging and intresting.
Its not that people dont understand the content and need advice on it - its people understanding the content and still not having fun with it.
Thats the problem: That the content, no matter if we play it FATE-train or mob-chain, isnt fun. Not that we dont know how to get the most out of it.
I know how to eat white chocolate. I still dont like it.

[Ruf]

No, don't tell them when you are getting way more protean crystals with proper party.
Also don't tell them that it is possible to get more than 1,300 protean crystals within 60 mins if you choose to do chain party instead of NM train.
Please also don't tell them that you are only need to do NM when you are working on relic armor.
This thread only allows one voice and one voice only.
If you are offering advise, you are labelled as Diadem 3.0 lover.
If you are explaining the mechanics, you are labelled as White Knight.
If you said you likes Eureka, apparently you are suffering Sunk-Cost Fallacy.

We also need not to remind them that the best way to show a game company that player base don't like a content is "not doing that content"
Please also not to remind them that only way to punish a subscribed mmorpg is un-subscribe like we did to Blizzard with WoD

You can keep your protean crystals I dont need that many , you can keep loving diadem 3.0,no no even tho I state the bad mechanics, my avatar label me as a drk,no clue what sunk-cost fallacy mean but Eureka is bad & whatever you say, w/e it is, that content is poor.