Bleeding Ifrit again...

[Zdenka]

Sentinel isn't getting removed, I can't find the post of someone who said it is but its not. Its GLA Ability 1 in the new class actions post (they make it clear the numbering in the post is NOT the order you gain them so it still might be a 30+ ability)

Molly, you only need 3000 HP to survive Hellfire. Without Shell on it does like 2950, with shell its closer to 2600. 3500 makes it absolutely safe though with a bit of a buffer to survive if it does the quick AoE after landing.

Also THM, ARC, and PGL aren't totally useless. Our usual set up is 3x LNC, 1x PGL, 1x THM, 2x CNJ, 1x MRD though honestly the reason you don't bring ARC is that even with it going all out (Meaning having every cross class ability) it still only does 1/4 to 1/3 the damage a LNC does, which makes the fight much more tedious since Phase 5 lasts a bit longer because of it. With only ARC at 50 I can't even see it doing more than 1/5th of what a LNC can do, sadly enough.

[Katella_Avenlea]

Indeed. I hate that the current state of the game has locked out 3 of the 7 total classes simply because they couldn't balance things correctly.

And who's business is it about how fast they level? This game is supposed to support casuals, but everything they've done so far is lock that group out, and the community doesn't help.

Mostly agree with this ^

Sad that instead of being helpful, or giving quality suggestions, the community elites want to quip over how long it takes other players to "efficiently" level, and belittle them saying they haven't "worked hard" because they haven't spend as many hours mindlessly pushing and grinding their levels or being power-leveled, like they had.

You've earned your levels just as much as anyone. They are ridiculous, and are missing the point. While I agree that the idea in growing your character this time around is to level multiple jobs and have a well-rounded character, I still don't think that players should have to have every single thing capped out before they are given the opportunity to participate in content. You shouldn't have to have every single job at 50 to be considered a viable team member, no matter how long you've played. Pure and simple, challenging content should be designed with a balanced team in mind, not requiring everyone come in as the same class with the exact same skill set. That said I'm not sure that this issue isn't more the fault of the playerbase than the devs. Aside from the lag and auto-lock issues, the mentality that "You have to play this way" has more to do with our own attitudes, than what is real. Teams have reported wins with Archers and Thaumaturge in their party, however because of the "Speed Run" mentality.. people aren't willing to do anything outside of what is now cookie cutter, and that is sad!

I read in one of Yoshi-P's interviews that after Ifrit was beat so quickly with people using mostly lancers, that the developer of the fight came to him crying.... so I don't think it was intended to be this way. I think the devs desire balance, and I kind of imagine it is part of why things will be reworked so much in 1.20.

There is no "REAL" reason why you shouldn't be able to at least attempt the fight as those jobs. Its just laziness on the part of the community who has decided to just go with the easiest way to overcome.

OP, if it makes you feel any better, I'm not there yet myself. I've played since beta with my husband, and neither of us have a level 50 yet. I'm kind of hoping that the changes in 1.20 ushers in some new ideals in regards to making a balanced team become more desirable, then taking in a group of DD's in an attempt to mow the thing over, as fast as you can.

You are not "Doing it wrong" just because you chose level with a partner instead of being power-leveled, or mindlessly grinding the levels out. For my husband and I we play together because the joy is in the journey and enjoying content and areas at the appropriate level, rather then grinding so far and fast that going back through and doing the quests is a joke.

[Kymusashi]

Unfortunately, it will always be like that in the pick up world. Due to not knowing how each other performs as a group, using the path of least resistance will always win out.

I would suggest getting into an open minded LS, because those are where you'll be able to go as the class you want, situations permitting. My LS runs with PUGs and MRDs as DDs quite often, although our archers all had other classes by the time this content came out, so can't comment on that.

Also, sentinel is not needed, but it is needed in the party somewhere. I'd say if half have it, one of them being a mage and the tank, it's doable. 8/8 without setninel though isn't going to be realistic to recover after hellfire. Sentinel is only part 2 of the hellfire problem, step one being taking out a nail. The really important part is everyone being able to self recover immediately, because you have maybe 3 seconds before ifrit uses another TP attack.

I would have to say skill definitely overcomes the benefit of sentinel. It's all a matter of proving yourself, and the biggest step towards that is getting a LS, so there's a group of players that consistantly see what you're capable of.

[Edgecrusher]

i find it odd...yet funny...and a bit sad...that people can do ifrit naked...and really all you need is sentinel....if that even.

[Themis]

You've earned your levels just as much as anyone. They are ridiculous, and are missing the point. While I agree that the idea in growing your character this time around is to level multiple jobs and have a well-rounded character, I still don't think that players should have to have every single thing capped out before they are given the opportunity to participate in content. You shouldn't have to have every single job at 50 to be considered a viable team member, no matter how long you've played. Pure and simple, challenging content should be designed with a balanced team in mind, not requiring everyone come in as the same class with the exact same skill set. That said I'm not sure that this issue isn't more the fault of the playerbase than the devs. Aside from the lag and auto-lock issues, the mentality that "You have to play this way" has more to do with our own attitudes, than what is real. Teams have reported wins with Archers and Thaumaturge in their party, however because of the "Speed Run" mentality.. people aren't willing to do anything outside of what is now cookie cutter, and that is sad!

This is my thoughts on the issue too. I started off with the goal to level GLA beacuse I wanted to be a tank class this time around (having played mostly mages in XI) and I intend to continue that goal. But having been allowed to experience the fight by my LS and realising the difficulty in tanking against trigger happy, mutli-classed players haven't been in since. I lack abilities that would make it easier. It probably wouldn't be impossible if time was taken - as I would assume the devs actually had a more balanced team in mind and took their time to take down Ifrit - but the principle of max kills per hour seems to take over and that ends up excluding classes who just cannot deal the fastest and highest damage (or in my case hold hate for longer than 30 seconds).

But I outright refuse to spam up my classes just to get those abilities. I don't even care much that it might take only 2 or 3 hours to cap the class out at 50. The fact is, a game is played to be enjoyed and spamming up to be useful is not enjoyable, not for me. If that means I cannot do some of the content right now, then so be it. It just means sitting tight and doing other content until the day comes that I can do that content whilst playing how I want to play.

This seems to have been taken into account with the class reform, but to what extent is yet to be seen. Hopefully, a lot of the cross class-able abilities are low level enough that even casual players can realistically set the goal of getting those in good time and not be excluded from content simply because they lack certain abilities - this is the issue I have at the moment; I can't tank very effectively on GLA abilities and some low level cross classed ones alone.

In the end, though, the fact remains that you are playing with a seemingly majority of players who are willing to spam up classes for abilities just to fight Ifrit. Either you conform to that, like most people, or you sit tight and hope that something changes in the future. As long as there is something you find enjoyable in the game, then you can keep up with that. If that's not enough, then this game has failed in its mission and to be honest isn't worth playing. That's not to say I advocate the current design - I'm against forcing someone to do something they don't want to do just to play a game - but the rules are pretty much set by the player base. You're either happy to follow those rules or you aren't.

I have good faith in the current development team, though. At some point, they'll get it right when they remember to think like the 'elite' players and balance things around the possibility of players being excluded because they 'were doing it wrong'.

[TheVedis]

How much hp would you recommend?

the hit does 2600, so the more the better, id suggest basicaly putting into any peice where you dont have some overly important other materia to put it in(such as str in hands/weapon)
like, you may want hp in your belt, head, feet, as a dd class, thats at least 360 more hp right there which is more then you need to live through it if you arent half dead when he uses it(keeping yourself healed is pretty important too in alot o aspects)

[Teakwood]

OP, Moose, everyone else who's expressed dismay at the way people act in MMOs, illegitimi non carborundum You guys are what the game needs!

Barring that, give the game a rest for the moment and keep checking in on version updates. Twelve know I didn't actually get back into the game until 1.19 hit - 1.20 will change things a lot, though, so will 1.21! It's also gotten a lot easier to get stuff leveled to a proper level now, too - leves give ridiculous XP after around level 30. I'm a little bit spoiled since I've done more-or-less XP permas with friends of mine who play the game with me and we can usually make at least a light party, and the XP pretty much rolls in. Try to find other people interested in teaming up to get stuff leveled?

People will always be jerks, though, but hey, once 2.0 rolls around (I know, ages from now) at least you'll be able to do stuff with people cross-server! I'd play with you guys, you sound awesome

Edit: yesplz, more duoable content~

[Vanguard319]

Greetings to all. I make my first post today, a sad day it is.

A brief bio My partner and I have been playing XIV since beta! Yup, from the beginning we have grown as the game has, casting, slashing, crafting, enjoying ourselves by and large. Slow and steady we have played together whenever we can, pushing thru the UI lag, waiting on patches, loving the look of the game immensely.

We capped our primary class last night, very excited I capped my Thamaturge and my partner his Archer, ready for the Primal... right? The biggest meanest boss in the game. Ahem! The only true boss (mega-boss?) in the game (atm).

Not good enough we are told... repeatedly. Why? Could it be the "elite" types saying no? Perhaps some of the rejections were from e-types.

Could it be the difficulty of the battle? I'm a FF newbie (only VII, XIII, and here), but plenty of other games and gaming experience under my belt. And there are folks out there who don't mind players that sometimes make mistakes, don't know every weakness and battle mechanic, I have heard from them whilst we tried to get to Ifrit.

Could it be the game itself? Fanboys are shuddering, I know. But if NO-ONE will allow an ARCHER in an Ifrit battle, who is to blame? If no one wants your participation unless you have Gladiator 36 as well as your capped class, how do you get to kill Ifrit?

Reminds me of older FFXI, says my partner. Dragoon or Dark Knight anyone want them? Red or White.. which mage will get picked?

If the battle is so hard (not that we are gonna find out anytime soon) as to require a FULL party, then a diversity would seem the best option. ONLY 7 battle classes, 8 members in the battle party, but never an Archer!

So what will we do? Both get Gladiator to 36 to get "Sentinel" to just survive the battle? Then level a third class **NOT** archer, then try get 6 others to join us....

I feel defeated, we have worked so hard to level cap. I've looked forward to the end-game content and the big battle! Moogle boss is coming I hear ya say, but what if similar conditions apply... Another month or 3 getting the requisite class to appease the community that we are good enough? The community we are required to combine forces with just to get there?

Should I pay for this experience as well now? I am really upset today, this has tarnished the experience I have enjoyed all year.. I've worked HARD for all year.

If you're an archer you can't play, Archer, archer go away.

*sigh*, Faz.

the sentinel is understandable, as it's the only thing that will most likely keep you alive through hellfire. Nobody wants archer because of the animation lock. Although there are proven strategies for taking out Ifrit with arcs in the party, the "elites" will simply find another reason to say no. (the damage nerf to arc is the next most common excuse.)

And as Chardrizard pointed out, the drop rate on this quest is horrible. (not even killing Ifrit with no party deaths is no guarantee you will get anything other than dark matter.) It'll likely stay this way until they release jobs.

[Rowyne]

Despite this, I do feel your frustration. And wish there was something fun that 2 players at level 50 can do together. I play with my best friend also and without a party of 8 there is really nothing exciting to do.

Please Developers of Final Fantasy XIV design some content for two level 50 character to do together and save this game!

^ I agree 100%. I want to be able to look forward to doing fun things with my husband in FFXIV when we hit lvl 50.

OP, if it makes you feel any better, I'm not there yet myself. I've played since beta with my husband, and neither of us have a level 50 yet. I'm kind of hoping that the changes in 1.20 ushers in some new ideals in regards to making a balanced team become more desirable, then taking in a group of DD's in an attempt to mow the thing over, as fast as you can.

You are not "Doing it wrong" just because you chose level with a partner instead of being power-leveled, or mindlessly grinding the levels out. For my husband and I we play together because the joy is in the journey and enjoying content and areas at the appropriate level, rather then grinding so far and fast that going back through and doing the quests is a joke.

Sounds just like my situation. Glad to know others enjoy playing the game this way, as well.

[Chardrizard]

^ I agree 100%. I want to be able to look forward to doing fun things with my husband in FFXIV when we hit lvl 50.

There are plenty of things that you can duo in this game at lvl 50, most of stronghold NMs can be duo'd.