An open petition / discussion about Animation Lock and FFXIV

[Kallera]

What you said here:



Is what I said here:




However, your being in agreement that archers should not be able to run and shoot results in a limiting of gameplay. How is it fair that every other class can hit and run while archer cannot?

Do you really want everyone and their mother kiting mobs around to avoid damage? It'd kill any notion of tanks in a pt.

You can see a similar example of such a battle system's results in White Knight Chronicles 2. Standard Tanks are outright shunned there.

[Hachi-Roku]

Animation lock would be fine in a game with no latency. The major issue is the positioning/environmental damage that has already been seen in the Ifrit fight, and the devs have said such fights are only going to get harder. So, the three ways you can die to this kind of thing are:

1) Being dumb, which is a fine way to die because you need to learn how to play better and everyone gets to have a laugh.
2) Latency/lag, which is not fun.
3) Animation lock while standing in a hazardous place.

The problem is, with the way that data is handled in XIV and the fact that you can't control latency on both your side and more importantly S-E's side, when a combination of latency and animation lock hits you, there's no strategic element to it. Your move may keep you in place for 1 second or 5 seconds, and lag can only jerk that time upwards.

In a perfect world with no lag, animation lock would be an acceptable thing to plan around.

[Kymusashi]

What you said here:



Is what I said here:




However, your being in agreement that archers should not be able to run and shoot results in a limiting of gameplay. How is it fair that every other class can hit and run while archer cannot?

In case you haven't noticed, archers have the same auto attack that every other war and mage class has. Them shooting arrows is also the same TP building moves that said melees and mage classes have, that also have the same animation lock. It all seems to be equally treated, if you ask me.

[Vanguard319]

What you said here:



Is what I said here:




However, your being in agreement that archers should not be able to run and shoot results in a limiting of gameplay. How is it fair that every other class can hit and run while archer cannot?

I already made my point on another thread and was declared the devil for it, but if you really insist on me repeating myself:

An archer cannot shoot while running period, not in fantasy, and certainly not in real life. Compare the steps necessary to firing a bow to shooting a gun.

bow:
1.nock
2.draw
3.hold
4.aim
5.release
6.follow through

now a gun:
1. load (does not have to be done at time of immediate use)
2. aim
3. fire
4. follow through

Do the math, 6 steps vs. 4. (3 if the gun is pre-loaded) With firearms, you can justify firing on the move, as the mechanics of firing a gun are simpler than firing a bow, and there are firing stances that allow a marksman to fire accurately while moving at a reduced movement speed. With a bow, you don't have that luxery. If you tried to shoot a bow on the run, you would miss at best, break the bow or wind up with a shattered arrow shaft in your arm at worst. The only way archers have ever been able to fire on the move, is from a mobile platform, whether it be a chariot, horse, or if you live on Middle Earth, a shield surfboard. I don't see any of those options happening anytime soon.

[Rentahamster]

Do you really want everyone and their mother kiting mobs around to avoid damage? It'd kill any notion of tanks in a pt.

Having archer being able to Light Shot without being stuck in the mud isn't going to turn the Ifrit fight into a kitefest.

In case you haven't noticed, archers have the same auto attack that every other war and mage class has. Them shooting arrows is also the same TP building moves that said melees and mage classes have, that also have the same animation lock. It all seems to be equally treated, if you ask me.

And if you haven't noticed, having an archer run up to Pugilist range in order to build TP is not the way a ranged class is supposed to be played. Light/Close/Multi shot is supposed to be the Archer's equivalent to auto attack to build TP, and them getting locked in place for it is unnecessary and detrimental to the class, as you can see in the Ifrit fight.

I already made my point on another thread and was declared the devil for it, but if you really insist on me repeating myself:

I read what you wrote the first time, and this is a game, not real life. Gameplay must be designed with fun and balance in mind, first and foremost.

[Kymusashi]

Having archer being able to Light Shot without being stuck in the mud isn't going to turn the Ifrit fight into a kitefest.


And if you haven't noticed, having an archer run up to Pugilist range in order to build TP is not the way a ranged class is supposed to be played. Light/Close/Multi shot is supposed to be the Archer's equivalent to auto attack to build TP, and them getting locked in place for it is unnecessary and detrimental to the class, as you can see in the Ifrit fight.


I read what you wrote the first time, and this is a game, not real life. Gameplay must be designed with fun and balance in mind, first and foremost.

It is rather funny though, about a month ago I posted a strat for archers in Ifrit, and people tried it, and it worked :P Use the mage spots and shoot away. Be smart, you can do 3 shots after each tp attack. Think your way out of a problem.

[Vanguard319]

Having archer being able to Light Shot without being stuck in the mud isn't going to turn the Ifrit fight into a kitefest.


And if you haven't noticed, having an archer run up to Pugilist range in order to build TP is not the way a ranged class is supposed to be played. Light/Close/Multi shot is supposed to be the Archer's equivalent to auto attack to build TP, and them getting locked in place for it is unnecessary and detrimental to the class, as you can see in the Ifrit fight.


I read what you wrote the first time, and this is a game, not real life. Gameplay must be designed with fun and balance in mind, first and foremost.

Ah yes, you were one of my critics....

You want me to argue without using the laws of physics, logic, or common sense? Very well, name ONE movie, game, or written novel where a bowman is firing his bow while running circles around his target, on his OWN two feet (shield surfboards do not count, so don't even try the LoTR excuse.) I won't be surprised if you can't find one.

[RathSkybreaker]

I already made my point on another thread and was declared the devil for it, but if you really insist on me repeating myself:

An archer cannot shoot while running period, not in fantasy, and certainly not in real life. Compare the steps necessary to firing a bow to shooting a gun.

bow:
1.nock
2.draw
3.hold
4.aim
5.release
6.follow through

now a gun:
1. load (does not have to be done at time of immediate use)
2. aim
3. fire
4. follow through

Do the math, 6 steps vs. 4. (3 if the gun is pre-loaded) With firearms, you can justify firing on the move, as the mechanics of firing a gun are simpler than firing a bow, and there are firing stances that allow a marksman to fire accurately while moving at a reduced movement speed. With a bow, you don't have that luxery. If you tried to shoot a bow on the run, you would miss at best, break the bow or wind up with a shattered arrow shaft in your arm at worst. The only way archers have ever been able to fire on the move, is from a mobile platform, whether it be a chariot, horse, or if you live on Middle Earth, a shield surfboard. I don't see any of those options happening anytime soon.

to you I say..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtkraBQbpgI

RL logic doesn't apply to a F***ing fantasy game jesus christ -_-

o I forgot to add sarcasm.. look .. what is that? A BOWMAN/ HUNTER Running while shooting a bow? I think hell just froze over :O.

[MegaMage]

I really wish we could get an OFFICIAL Confirmation of this

Exactly. All I'm asking for is a few answers and yet people seem fit to think "oh well you just suck because you can't play outside of animation lock." Not that I need to defend it, but I've won Ifrit plenty of times and don't need any more skill. I say to those negative people: Thanks for the suggestion, but you really have no idea what you are talking about.

It seems like the player fan base of SE/FFXIV are totally brain washed from being jerked around for years in XI. I'm actually laughing out loud every time I open this thread now and see all these posts about animation lock being a positive thing. Doesn't seem like many of the people supporting this have any experience with MMOs outside of FF.

Do you really want everyone and their mother kiting mobs around to avoid damage? It'd kill any notion of tanks in a pt.

You can see a similar example of such a battle system's results in White Knight Chronicles 2. Standard Tanks are outright shunned there.

As it stands right now, heavy armor = tanks in EXP PT. It's already "Kill as fast as possible to increase EXP." This is pretty common in most MMOs with the same pacing as FFXIV and not a new concept. The tanking concept only becomes important later when you deal with raiding. However, all characters participating in a raid should be able to perform their roles without standing apart so greatly from one another that they are marked useless and never invited to that raid. Ifrit is a perfect example of this. Archer gets animation lock from regular attacks? Bam. Instant useless class. You levelled Archer to 50 for absolutely no reason and SE spits on you in response. Time to play LNC, MRD or CNJ I guess. Or quit.

It's no wonder why this concept you're defending is unpopular and considered a design flaw.

I already made my point on another thread and was declared the devil for it, but if you really insist on me repeating myself:

An archer cannot shoot while running period, not in fantasy, and certainly not in real life. Compare the steps necessary to firing a bow to shooting a gun.

bow:
1.nock
2.draw
3.hold
4.aim
5.release
6.follow through

now a gun:
1. load (does not have to be done at time of immediate use)
2. aim
3. fire
4. follow through

Do the math, 6 steps vs. 4. (3 if the gun is pre-loaded) With firearms, you can justify firing on the move, as the mechanics of firing a gun are simpler than firing a bow, and there are firing stances that allow a marksman to fire accurately while moving at a reduced movement speed. With a bow, you don't have that luxery. If you tried to shoot a bow on the run, you would miss at best, break the bow or wind up with a shattered arrow shaft in your arm at worst. The only way archers have ever been able to fire on the move, is from a mobile platform, whether it be a chariot, horse, or if you live on Middle Earth, a shield surfboard. I don't see any of those options happening anytime soon.

Real life & Movies != Video games. Just because something is hyper realistic does not mean it will be a good idea when you create an artificial world with artificial systems that only work by mimicking real life and then skewing reality to be entertaining. In real life you wouldn't be casting magical purple light that suddenly is supposed to heal another characters wounds, even when those wounds keep coming. In real life you wouldn't be taking repeated hits from a giant creature considered a primal god and live to tell about it. Saying "it's realistic and that's why I think it should stay this way because I can just play another class" is being highly counter-productive and very besides the point.

It is rather funny though, about a month ago I posted a strat for archers in Ifrit, and people tried it, and it worked :P Use the mage spots and shoot away. Be smart, you can do 3 shots after each tp attack. Think your way out of a problem.

The problem here is not that a player couldn't figure out a way to adapt like everyone else who actually gets to go as one of the "required classes". The problem is because everyone knows that they are "gimped" from a broken mechanic, they do not get invites. They don't even get a chance to defend why their class should go if it's really in the hands of a more-capable player. This is a direct result of a design flaw. You can't really blame the majority of the player base from shying away from ARC when you are trying to set up a group and have your heart set on winning.

[Rentahamster]

Very well, name ONE movie, game, or written novel where a bowman is firing his bow while running circles around his target, on his OWN two feet (shield surfboards do not count, so don't even try the LoTR excuse.) I won't be surprised if you can't find one.

Be surprised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMtzAXP4gt4#t=01m05s

Your video game history needs brushing up.