What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Ruf]

Good thing you raise that up, because french is actually my native tongue.

Anyway... I did try to read what you wrote. Twice. And then I gave up. I won't give myself a headache because of that unintelligible gibberish, sorry.
What I did understood from it was that it was mostly you rambling about random stuff I haven't even talked about. Such as "recognizing false numbers" (I'm not even the one who provided you with that data), saying that you apologize when you're wrong (okay, good for you, but I don't care and that has nothing to do with anything I said), or "missrespected me" (I'm also not the one who said that I liked that minion).

So, no, I legitimately did not understand what you were trying to say to me.
And to be honest, I don't really care at that point.

Tu m'donne mal à tête,eureka is no bueno.

[Miles_Maelstrom]

Calling the OP, any chance you can change the thread title to "Fyce Fytes the forum" because that's what this has become.

[Ruf]

Anyway... I did try to read what you wrote. Twice.

Also, funny how I do a 100words sentence, & you are doing a 1word sentence on your side...

[Marluxia]

I wanted to take the time to address what I think is a central element in why Eureka is so divisive: FFXIV's combat.

Particularly the argument that "dungeons and Eureka are the same".

Fundamentally, dungeons are identical experiences with different sets of window dressing, with some rare breaks to the formula (for example the 2nd boss of Stone Vigil hard mode). So the dungeons are the same to each other, for the most part.

However, "dungeon repetitiveness" and Eureka are fundamentally the same problem.

FFXIV combat is unengagingly repetitive without a variety of monster mechanics to dance around.

FFXIV's combat--rotations, positionals, and resource management--is at its best when balancing these things with boss mechanics.

In FFXIV, when you're fighting something with minimal or no mechanics, combat largely becomes a matter of using your rotation to do optimal damage. However, this is also problematic because it reveals a fundamental flaw about WoW-style MMO combat and "rotations": a lack of dynamic gameplay. Fighting things becomes monotonous because by and large, you're pushing buttons in the same order on a cycle.

Now, this isn't inherently bad, obviously--all video games are built on some form of repetition, regardless of genre, so it'd be very silly to think "repetition=bad". At the same time, dynamicism isn't inherently good, either.

What makes this particular type of repetition engaging vs. unengaging is firstly, the timescale (how long you spend doing a repetitive activity), and the number of things that draw the player's attention away from their repetition.

Firstly, timescale. This is self-explanatory: the "fun" of an activity is inversely proportional to the length of time you have to do. "Variety is the spice of life", for example. Anything gets boring if you have to do it often enough, regardless of what it is.

Secondly, drawing the attention of the player(s) away from the repetition. Let's take Byakko Extreme as an example. An average, successful clear will take maybe 10 to 11 minutes. And let's compare that to hitting a striking dummy for about 10 minutes as well.

Are they the same? Are they equally fun? I think most reasonable people would say "no".

Hitting a training dummy for 10 minutes and hitting Byakko for 10 minutes are different experiences because Byakko Extreme requires the player pay attention to things other than their rotation: specifically AoEs, mechanics, maybe voice chat, and so on. These things are what make the FFXIV combat interesting to play.

And of course, doing nothing but grinding Byakko Extreme for, say, two hours would also get boring. Despite the fact that Byakko Extreme still has variety, anything repetitive gets boring to do after a certain amount of time. And when you have Byakko Extreme memorized, guess where your attention is at? Well, you're paying attention to how repetitive doing the fight is, and then it stops being fun, at least temporarily.

And no, I'm not suggesting that every single mob in the game have the complexity of Byakko Extreme. However, making FFXIV's MMO combat at least tolerable on its own requires one of two things: either making encounters short (thus reducing time spent on a repetitive task) or increasing variety, most often through monster mechanics (to draw attention away from repetition).

Another example is Palace of the Dead, for example, which has a lot of things that make it fun to do by distracting from the repetition: for example, traps players have to deal with, pomander management, exploration of every floor, saving someone if they die, and so on. So does PvP, and raids, and so on.

Now, I'm sure people find dungeons boring for one of these two reasons, if not both. Either dungeons take too long, or there's nothing interesting going on in the dungeons to draw attention, OR you've done the same dungeon repeatedly over a period of time that it is unengaging to do.

TL;DR: Eureka has the same problem as dungeons: it takes too long to level up, and there is not enough depth in its gameplay to distract people from its repetitive nature. FFXIV should emphasize either having things be simple and short, or complex and long: gameplay that is simple and long is just boring.

[Remedi]

Edit : Another thing that hit my mind. Sure, Eureka gear may not be the best of all, but, any equal or higher gear except crafting and weapon is weekly locked. That's also a big point for Eureka when it comes to gearing multiple jobs.

They are also the best Ilvl possible for ultimate coil

@Marluxia That's a good point actually

[Krotoan]

You should not do the train, people recommending that are part of the problem.
People should be spreading out and farming NM spawns of their level, not hanging out at NM spawns 10 levels higher or lower. That is not the right way to do this.

People will ALWAYS find the path of least resistance to a long term goal. Blaming players for finding a way to circumvent the system is like scolding the cows for running out of the pen if you left holes in the fence.
Also: the "correct" way is also mind (and hand) numbing. Instead of a mechanically relevant (if you can see the boss) fight every once in a while, you're doing literally thousands of no thought fights with an occasional big fight. I enjoy doing my rotation. I don't enjoy doing it for an hour straight.

The system needs to be fixed to guide people to the "correct" way and make this not only the optimal path, but the engaging path as well. They've made a maze with spikes, pitfalls and flamethrowers barring the paths but everyone has found the path around the entire maze to the same goal.

[Alleo]

What is happening in this thread? Few selective individuals are hi-jacking the FF14 community and re-packaging it as "FF14 community hates Eureka." Is that really what is happening here? If you don't like a content, don't do it, it is as simple as that. This is a theme park mmorpg after all.

And yet you are still not answering my question. (And this thread is about Eureka not Dungeons if you post a thread about dungeons I would post my opinions about that too but this one is called Eureka) A question that has nothing to do with like or dislike but only about your view of the longlivety of this content. Also all you are doing with that post is hating the haters aka doing the same but instead of it being content its the people.

(And if it was only a few selective individuals then the I love Eureka thread would have exploded with pages and likes of it right? The last that I know of it is, that it barely got any pages and the last few were another "battle" between the community)

This is pure hope and speculation, but we might see Eureka expanding througout more than one expansion. The reason why is because it's the first time a totally new content is dedicated for the relic, and Square-Enix might want to make the most profits out of it.

The most common parrallel that's made is comparing Eureka of XIV with Abyssea of XI. In Abyssea, each time the level cap was raised, you had the opportunity to bump your relic to the new level cap, so, in the end, you got your weapon from level 75 up to level 99. I'd like to see the same thing with Eureka. But again, this is hope and speculation, I don't have any proof or information to claim that's what they'll do.

I believe so too since this Eureka is all aboud wind. The question is if they take our constructive critisism to the heart (from the other thread) and give us a better Eureka. It would not change my opinon of this one but at least it would give me the feeling that they are still listening.

[BillyKaplan]

My eternal love to each and every person who came up with a tracker for this. All half a dozen (and counting) of you.

[Reynhart]

Tu m'donne mal à tête,eureka is no bueno.

Si tu rajoutais un peu de ponctuation, ça passerait beucoup mieux

People will ALWAYS find the path of least resistance to a long term goal. Blaming players for finding a way to circumvent the system is like scolding the cows for running out of the pen if you left holes in the fence.

This is not the path of least resistance, at least for lvl 6 party that try to join the train...and get their ass kicked right away. Yet, you still see high level player claiming that it's the best way to Xp right from the start...

[Krotoan]

This is not the path of least resistance, at least for lvl 6 party that try to join the train...and get their ass kicked right away. Yet, you still see high level player claiming that it's the best way to Xp right from the start...

Level 6s will still get far more xp trailing around after the train for far less effort than trying to chain over and over and over. If that's not the path of least resistance I don't know what is.
Go tank, grab some aggro for fate credit, or overheal , poof mega xp for much less effort.
Avoiding mobs is not hard, and as people have said, there are people willing to res you even if you mess up. Why not follow the train? No thinking required. The difference between when I was trying to solo chain things, and when I got a party and they yanked me around for the NM's was night and day. You can even have disparate parties with wild level differences, doesn't matter, everyone gets xp for the NM. Why bother trying to find the other 2-6s around you when all you need is someone at 6-10 to drag the noob around.