Should FF14 take a new route? Discussion

[Aerlana]

FFXIV is not an ultra competitive esport game like WoW, with leagues and official first-kill race, and it doesn't try or want to be.

It is not really official. The race began early, when europe didnt have the game yet. Many people did watch who would get the world first, the server first. The competitiv spirit is inside many human. It is not a bad thing, it force everyone to give his bests. it become bad when people do it with excess... as many things.

There is nothing official, raider.io and wowprogress are site that show progress per server but are not. When a guild kills a boss, they tweet it now. And site like wowhead transmit this. Blizzard just come and say "gratz people" and nothing else. Those site get nothing official, even if blizzard's team are refering to them sometime. they are good site btw.


All these we already have on FFXIV, many people did watch with ultimate, we had tweet for twintania kill and others. SE did also tweet to applause those one.

Warcraftlogs, FFlogs, site to compare yourself to others. either to improve yourself, or to a competition spirit. neither site are "official" site.

WoW or FFXIV didnt build directly this competitiv thing, it is natural as human, Blizzard just made choice to go the way people are doing it. adding the "realm first" achievments. They did appear in WOTLK... after 4 year of competition. Just follow the community way to do.

For both game i watch those world first realm first. And then, it dont really change the way i play; most toxic player are people that consider they have top world level and are shit. As those people crying about EloHell. Just ignore them. they cant even understandt there is many way to play. Those who want competition, to those who dont even touch the end game content

BTW, Yoshida want some competition, it is the way "the feast" is made. with season, ranking, some reward for the ranking, and he want some live show competition during fanfest.


But it doesnt mean it takes wow route, and FFXIV must not take wow route. People are (in my mind) speaking a lot about wow simply because FFXIV is not in good situation, i mean in game, contents. and so people try to see elsewhere. WoW is the most comparable MMORPG : both are subscription model. a PvE systeme with 3 tier per expansion. The roulet Xpert remembers to a lot people the "heroday" when there was emblem of justice, valor and so much... Memoquartz we call it in FFXIV. But wow lost part of those. no more emblems to buy stuff for main example.


For now, FFXIV is on a strange situation, 4.0 goes out, most people already did most content, except sadic, 1 month after release... With only levelig more and more job as content. 4.1 came, a 3 years silly housing system finally came to explosion, a new primal that many people already cleared and farmed after 2 weeks, and rabanastre, the weekly travel, for 2 hours, hard the first week. 4.2, new raid story mode, new sadic, new primal clean and farmed in 2 week. And then? all time nothing else leveling more jobs. "farm hunt, farm treasure" but for many people they already did this during ARR/HW, they get all from those expansion, and they have already all from stormblood maybe...
Finally came Eureka, 17 month waiting, son of 2 fail, People had many hope, too much hope maybe. And all we got is mobs bashing like 15 years back, with no difficulty, just long bash. Or else, fate train, as we did to level. as this was the only efficient way to leveling before 2.1, and stayed a really efficient way until palace of the dead came out.




People like me loved FFXIV at release, and had many hope about what it could become. I loved this FFXIV as i love WoW, and my first hope was not a "WoW bis" but a real competitor to wow, with choice different than blizzard's choice, to make another great game. I dont want FFXIV to become a copy of wow, just another great MMORPG, with sub system, with different things that wow has to offer, a different philosophy. The only philosophy i see is "grind, more grind, even more grind, time sink ever and ever" It was great MMORPG build this way yes true... 15 years in the past.


The topic mainly ask "should FFXIV take a new route" the main answer is "yes" or "no" the "as wow? as [other MMORPG]? as [example of route]" comes after. and more, We can ask to see a route change, but the final decision is Yoshida's decision. even more for "which route"

[Moogly]

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There are many in-game achievements for being realm-first, that's what I was thinking about when I was saying it was "official".
Also, during blizzcon, there are those raid competitions between the top guilds - those exhibitions that yoship wants to have.
All in all, Pve content in wow, and to an extent blizzard games, are competition oriented - may be it wasn't intended in the beginning, but now it is clearly their philosophy. Overwatch was definitely made and tought to be a competitive esport game.
For ffxiv, only PvP and PotD have official rankings, if I'm not mistaken. And, yes, it does try to add more competitive content, but overall, you cannot deny the game tries to stay as casual as it can. I mean, it's better for their business...

As for the direction it should take, I believe it is doing fine, with a few misses sure, but overall I don't feel like it necessarily has to move on or change director as OP is suggesting.
Yea, eureka has a lot of grinding, but the other relics had their fair share of grinding too ! In fact, grinding is part of the identity of mmo games.
As for the lifetime of content, yes, we clean those really fast. But not everybody plays at the same rythm.
Example : eureka, when most people are already lvl 15+, or even already got their relic gear fully augmented, I just barely reached lvl 10 yesterday and don't even have a hundred prot crystals, because these last days I just happened to have a lot of things irl to care about and couldnt play ffxiv that much. So if for some people eureka is already old content, to me and many others it is still relevant, and might stay relevant till next patch.
Now I kind of do like grinding - if you don't, I'll understand it - but you can't really complain that there is grinding, because as I said it is part of what a mmo is.

Also, it is impossible to tell what most players want - players on forums aren't necessarily representative of what the player base in its whole wants, as we forum users are just a very small (and more dedicated I'd say) part of the player base.
I guess the only real data that speaks to SE about win or miss is their number of subs...
And if they continue in a certain route, I believe it is because it is the most profitable one (and the less risky one ?)

Oh, and I was talking about wow because knowing OP, I am kind of guessing that it is the direction OP wants the game to take...

If you find that toxic then you either don't understand the word or wish to water down its meaning to the point where it's meaningless.

If you feel like all human interactions irl should be made through sarcasm and belittling, as he's doing, fine with me.
If you find that it is OK and that being harsh make people grow up, fine.
I am living in this jungle every dam single day.

But don't bring this in my fantasy world. Please.

[KaivaC]

Oh, and I was talking about wow because knowing OP, I am kind of guessing that it is the direction OP wants the game to take...

Not...really. Considering that I have maybe 2 hours of experience with Wow...but I am of the opinion that there are some things that other MMOs do well that the devs could really take some inspiration from. But that is neither here nor there at the moment. The only thing I'm really saying here is that base game has pretty much been the same from ARR, to HW, to SB. And Eureka wasn't really a huge talking point for me - I personally enjoy going in Eureka - it just feels like the devs are scared to try something. Understandably, yes, because of the original product, but surely they wouldn't be as hesitant if they opened discussion to the player base. Either way, it was just a thought that I had and wanted to share with the forums.

[Moogly]

The only thing I'm really saying here is that base game has pretty much been the same from ARR, to HW, to SB.

How can I say...?
Mc Donalds, Coca cola, KFC, they all use recipes that date, for some, more than a century back in time.
When you have something that works, you don't change it - people hate changes.
I think it's the same idea with ffxiv.
Also considering the catastrophy of 1.0, head management must be very cautious on betting on new ideas or game concept.

But well, since ffxiv dev team is really open to the community, and probably the most transparent I have ever seen (e.g Yoship's comment on the ungarmax exploit), you have all the right to be asking for changes.

[Shouko]

Snip

Food industry has changed their recipes over the years many times, that's why the original coke wasn't even a soft drink it was coco wine which was wine with cocaine, it was meant as a way to get the founder off morphine at the time. Even the soda version of coke has changed over the years, there wasn't high fructose corn syrup in it, it didn't have caramel coloring, etc. Recipes change all the time, but they also spend millions on R&D to get that perfect chemical mixture to make you like their food/drinks/ .

There's change and there's too much change, there's stability and monotonous. This game is becoming monotonous and if they aren't careful people that do want change will leave, granted the opposite is the same too much change and people won't like it and still leave.

Think about it this way, do you eat the exact same food every day? Say you eat Subway everyday for lunch and order the turkey breast on wheat with a side of doritos and a coke, do that for 1 year every day and you will never eat it again because it's boring.

I can understand hesitation but that was back in 2012-2013 era, 5-6 years ago is a long time in terms of things not changing much in an MMO. At this point they need to start taking more risks and updating or else people are going to leave for games better more updated MMOs.

[Kaonis]

If you feel like all human interactions irl should be made through sarcasm and belittling, as he's doing, fine with me.
If you find that it is OK and that being harsh make people grow up, fine.
I am living in this jungle every dam single day.

But don't bring this in my fantasy world. Please.

I never said that, but thank you for putting words in my mouth so you could argue a point I never made. Their comment was extremely tame and mild even as sarcasm goes. You're just overreacting. I mean if you found that toxic, I shudder to think what you would consider what goes on over at LoL, or even many of the posts in this very forum, as being.

Also this isn't your fantasy world, its an area we all take part in.

[Moogly]

I never said that, but thank you for putting words in my mouth so you could argue a point I never made. Their comment was extremely tame and mild even as sarcasm goes. You're just overreacting. I mean if you found that toxic, I shudder to think what you would consider what goes on over at LoL, or even many of the posts in this very forum, as being.

Also this isn't your fantasy world, its an area we all take part in.

It is only overreacting, until someone gets offended.
It is never a problem, until a problem happens.
I also suggest you think about this : how do people react when they're called out for being elitist ?
Your answer is yet another proof of how you elitist look somehow totally disconnected of the reality of things, explaining in part how you guys cannot accept that other players aren't at your skill level.

Also, I never meant to say that ffxiv was litteraly my fantasy world - it was a figure of speech...
You talk about putting words into other people's mouth, but elitists are experts in doing this :/

[Kaonis]

It is only overreacting, until someone gets offended.

to react or respond more strongly than is necessary or appropriate.

As for the rest of your reply it's pretty nonsensical. I have no idea where you got me being an elitist from, nor even how you are defining it. Again, much like your misuse of the word toxic I imagine we have very different definitions of that same word. But I think jumping the gun to randomly call me an elitist says far more about you than me. Also, are you actually asking a question then immediately using an answer I never gave to argue a point I didn't make? Because that's exactly how it is coming off from your wording.

Honestly, I feel like you're having an entirely different conversation here.

[Musashidon]

It is only overreacting, until someone gets offended.

what? i am all for being nice but who cares if someone is offended? being offended doesn't mean anything it's just you whining you didn't like what you heard.

Yet it's completely acceptable they contribute not even half the activity of everyone else? A pure healer will have as little as 20% activity. Can I spend 80% of my next dungeon afk or spamming emotes as the tank? No? Why do healers get a built in excuse?

main reason i play tank lol xD spend over 80% watching netflix speaking of which jessica jones hasn't been terrible and the san clarita diet comes out in two days!

as long as pretty much nothing is required out of tanks and healers in dungeons they don't really have to do much then use flash/overpower alittle and set up their Hot's and watch netflix/hulu