Should FF14 take a new route? Discussion

[GetFoesReqd]

I love this game in spite of its faults and failings, and I love Yoshi P and his team for doing what I think is a good job, especially in a company that holds different interests than he and his team. I don't think changing him would help, because I feel the stagnation is more a result of SE themselves. Lately, they have treated their historically best games as cash cows and commodities, and have disrespected some of their classics terribly, as their recent PC ports from Nier's bugginess on to the recent "definitive edition" of Chrono Trigger that is actually just the mobile garbage have shown.

They show such a lack of love for new and old games alike, that I don't honestly think anything in this world would convince them to give Yoshi the needed people and funds to finish fixing this game for its lifetime, but switching him for someone else of SE's choice would likely just hamstring the game entirely. I do think 14 has potential to be a lot better, I just don't think that they will let it be, and that's a real shame. Hopefully I turn out to be wrong, but game companies in general have only given many of us cause to be cynical lately and SE themselves aren't really bothering to do anything about it as long as the dollars flow, which I am sure has been said a million times already here.

[Alleo]

Most of the items in FFXIV cash shop were old event items which if you have been subbed constantly they are nothing to you.

What are you talking about the tokens in-game for the wow cashshop?

Yet for those that started after it those event items are still new items and they cant get them any other way. If I remember it correctly people can buy things from the cash shop (or tokens) and sell them ingame for gold. This way if you need more money ingame you can sell those things and the other person can get cash shop stuff. They also went so far and made it possible to sell game time that way.

Seeing the prices on SEs side, the DLC and complete Royal edition for FF15 and much more...I cant say that SE is any better than Blizzard.

Anyway last post on this otherwise its get a bit off topic.

[Remedi]

Activision-blizzard pls, neither is better they are both greedy that was my point, however my ppl are saying that the cash shop on FFXIV is like some LE GASP moment which frankly it's not companies are vulture, that's the truth

As someone has stated they don't some some of the money, they want ALL the money

edit: And since we are at it why no1 asks to the devs about why they keep adding paied retainers instead of unlocking some free ones for us, It really annoys me that space is handled in that manner. At least they are working actively on fixing the inventory, but that stain still lasts

[Alleo]

I know that we are kinda on the same page on this Remedi. I am just a person that likes to answer questions that are directed at me so I gave them even after you already posted a bit more. So yes both are greedy and its kinda sad. I do have a friend that loved FF and kinda bought a lot of stuff from SE but the recent things in FF14 and the greed kinda turned him off and he said that he does not want to buy any bigger things from them. So this can turn negative for them too. (And yes I also have posted that I find it bad that we get more paid retainers and not at least one free one per expansion..)

I just hope that they get more budget, a better server/code and finally take some risk..and if they dont want to risk then its completely fine to just use the great things from other MMOs and put their interpretation of this in FF14. (But without it being completely complicated..)

[Aerlana]

Lately, they have treated their historically best games as cash cows

You mean, like FFXIV and the vendor sub, the 700 dollars cash shop (that dont include wedding or dyes) in a subscription MMORPG?

The road we have now is a road where FFXIV as to generate as much profit as possible. so, content with poor work on it (eureka is not anything that needed 17 month... ) and a big cash shop...

[Moogly]

If my co-healer did not go into Cleric Stance within 20ish seconds after the boss was pulled, I let them primarily solo healer.

And what if it was a beginner, doing his first raids ?
Some must have raged against you for not helping with the healing... or in the confusion, thought you were a 100% DPS healer and told themselve "oh boy I better not throw a single DPS spell and focus on healing !"
No one ever complained to you for not helping ? That must have caused drama if you then answered them that they should dps

In fact, we have this DPS mindset because so very little content requires much healing.

Actually, this is from our POV.
I guess like me you've had healer experience from wow, and in wow healers usually don't have the luxury to dps.
This is why most people playing ffxiv that already have prior mmo experience will say, ffxiv fights are not heal intensive - which in fact is true.
Taking this into account, it is then of course logical, that DPSing will be THE efficient way of playing. But again, this is our "mmo veteran" pov.
A mmo beginner will think "I am playing a healer, I should heal". And if he just plays casually, only on normal difficulty, optimizing is something that will never ever cross his mind. For him, completing the raid with everybody alive will be a total success, even though he didn't cast a single dot.
And this is when the player's ego problem comes into scene.
How some people talk about how other players are underperforming, or how pure healers are bad players... it's that pretentious mindset of considering oneself as some kind of elite player that is annoying people.

FFXIV is not an ultra competitive esport game like WoW, with leagues and official first-kill race, and it doesn't try or want to be.
To me, it is a super casual game, with some more spiced up contents for those who like it : but overall, it is a casual-oriented game.
All that talk about optimizing, high level play, etc... most people don't care about it.
Sure, it is interesting talk, and I do like it - but it is in no way a playstyle I would brag about, or worse, impose on others.
And when you call out people for that, or call them bad because they don't reach your expectation, or like you did, "punish" them for not playing the way you think they should, this is when you're wrong.

Shall FFXIV take the WoW route - understand hyper competitive environment - I will most probably unsub.
Competition brings ego, saltiness, aggressivity.... I quit wow because I was sick of all that, so please stop bringing all that garbage into FFXIV, which so far has a fantastic community.

[HoodRat]

Shall FFXIV take the WoW route - understand hyper competitive environment - I will most probably unsub.
Competition brings ego, saltiness, aggressivity.... I quit wow because I was sick of all that, so please stop bringing all that garbage into FFXIV, which so far has a fantastic community.

I didn't know playing the game instead of standing idle was hyper competitive.

[Moogly]

I didn't know playing the game instead of standing idle was hyper competitive.

it is in no way a playstyle I would brag about

You are the living proof of the toxicity I am talking about.

[Claviusnex]

Unfortunately, people don't have this image of Japan... but as someone who lives here, I can tell you that sadly this is not a country that enjoys progression and change. The culture here is to do things as they have always been done; it's not very well received if you try to speak up and present another more efficient way to do something. Even if it is undoubtedly superior, others will tend to scoff at you and ignore your suggestions. They suffer very much from "this is how it's always been done, so this is how we will do it".

Japan's culture is very much against change or anything that might have a possibility to rock the boat. To reinforce this my former company only supported operating systems from the current release minus two. Some of our largest customers in Japan paid large amounts of money to us to maintain some operating systems 10 years past their end of support dates. The reason is not wanting change. The only way they eventually modernized was they had to upgrade their hardware to handle increased load and the new hardware didn't support the old operating systems. then the cycle repeated. It is this same culture that is responsible for many Japanese companies use US and European companies for design how a product looks as westerners tend to take more risks.

Lost part of my post. I was going to add that the promotion of YoshiP could be good for the game if it results in some new blood taking over as producer and director.

[Aerlana]

FFXIV is not an ultra competitive esport game like WoW, with leagues and official first-kill race, and it doesn't try or want to be.

It is not really official. The race began early, when europe didnt have the game yet. Many people did watch who would get the world first, the server first. The competitiv spirit is inside many human. It is not a bad thing, it force everyone to give his bests. it become bad when people do it with excess... as many things.

There is nothing official, raider.io and wowprogress are site that show progress per server but are not. When a guild kills a boss, they tweet it now. And site like wowhead transmit this. Blizzard just come and say "gratz people" and nothing else. Those site get nothing official, even if blizzard's team are refering to them sometime. they are good site btw.


All these we already have on FFXIV, many people did watch with ultimate, we had tweet for twintania kill and others. SE did also tweet to applause those one.

Warcraftlogs, FFlogs, site to compare yourself to others. either to improve yourself, or to a competition spirit. neither site are "official" site.

WoW or FFXIV didnt build directly this competitiv thing, it is natural as human, Blizzard just made choice to go the way people are doing it. adding the "realm first" achievments. They did appear in WOTLK... after 4 year of competition. Just follow the community way to do.

For both game i watch those world first realm first. And then, it dont really change the way i play; most toxic player are people that consider they have top world level and are shit. As those people crying about EloHell. Just ignore them. they cant even understandt there is many way to play. Those who want competition, to those who dont even touch the end game content

BTW, Yoshida want some competition, it is the way "the feast" is made. with season, ranking, some reward for the ranking, and he want some live show competition during fanfest.


But it doesnt mean it takes wow route, and FFXIV must not take wow route. People are (in my mind) speaking a lot about wow simply because FFXIV is not in good situation, i mean in game, contents. and so people try to see elsewhere. WoW is the most comparable MMORPG : both are subscription model. a PvE systeme with 3 tier per expansion. The roulet Xpert remembers to a lot people the "heroday" when there was emblem of justice, valor and so much... Memoquartz we call it in FFXIV. But wow lost part of those. no more emblems to buy stuff for main example.


For now, FFXIV is on a strange situation, 4.0 goes out, most people already did most content, except sadic, 1 month after release... With only levelig more and more job as content. 4.1 came, a 3 years silly housing system finally came to explosion, a new primal that many people already cleared and farmed after 2 weeks, and rabanastre, the weekly travel, for 2 hours, hard the first week. 4.2, new raid story mode, new sadic, new primal clean and farmed in 2 week. And then? all time nothing else leveling more jobs. "farm hunt, farm treasure" but for many people they already did this during ARR/HW, they get all from those expansion, and they have already all from stormblood maybe...
Finally came Eureka, 17 month waiting, son of 2 fail, People had many hope, too much hope maybe. And all we got is mobs bashing like 15 years back, with no difficulty, just long bash. Or else, fate train, as we did to level. as this was the only efficient way to leveling before 2.1, and stayed a really efficient way until palace of the dead came out.




People like me loved FFXIV at release, and had many hope about what it could become. I loved this FFXIV as i love WoW, and my first hope was not a "WoW bis" but a real competitor to wow, with choice different than blizzard's choice, to make another great game. I dont want FFXIV to become a copy of wow, just another great MMORPG, with sub system, with different things that wow has to offer, a different philosophy. The only philosophy i see is "grind, more grind, even more grind, time sink ever and ever" It was great MMORPG build this way yes true... 15 years in the past.


The topic mainly ask "should FFXIV take a new route" the main answer is "yes" or "no" the "as wow? as [other MMORPG]? as [example of route]" comes after. and more, We can ask to see a route change, but the final decision is Yoshida's decision. even more for "which route"