Concern on the current state of FFXIV, and future content

[KaldeaSahaline]

What the heck DO you guys want besides the nebulous "something creative and new?" Because Square sure has tried. People were asking for a very generic "let me do something more with my minions" and so added Lord of Verminion... But because Square didn't read their minds, the hated it. They asked for a harder raid difficulty, and then Ultimate came and people whined it was locked or Too Hard or Too Random. Asked for glamour to be redone, it's in the process of it and the preliminary stuff has been released and people complain about THAT. And I just sit here and watch and wonder what people ACTUALLY WANT because nothing seems to satisfy beyond "completely new game each expansion."

Speaking strictly IMO:

1) Looking at LoV. I would have loved they simply ported a version of FFT's engine into the game and let us use our minions on that. Let us 'customize' their abilities and 'level' them up against AI and play with/against friends. To supplement this idea, they should have a tile editor for people to create and share maps and scenarios. I literally would play this nonstop, especially if they tied in other rewards. Alternatively this could have been a squadron feature as well instead.

They even could have just gone Pokemon battles and it would have been 'sufficient', but I think drawing on inspiration from past successes and IP is a better way to go.

2) UCoB is great. Except one for glaring issue. 18 minute fights aren't fun. They weren't fun when I was progressing world first shit in WoW and they're even less fun now that I am older. They should design boss fights to be shorter and more impactful, not longer and more tiring.

3) The Glamour Dresser is a perfect example of one step forward two steps back. They should have just not touched it or spent any dev time on it until something actually good could be implemented.

Now to supplement my post with some of my own ideas:

1) Gold Saucer is downright criminally underused. Chocobo racing in its current implementation should be a felony. Much like my LoV suggestion they should have ported in a Mario Cart (or better yet Crash Team Racing) engine and let you race AI or friends for prizes. I'd have tied the entire Chocobo progression system, bardings, colors, and EXP/leveling/effects in here as well as other rewards (tomes, gil, materia, etc.) Then supply the playerbase with a tile editor and allow us to make our own maps to create and share with friends.

2) Battle Arena could have been a really cool idea if we had a slightly more robust battle/gearing system. Something like a "create a boss" thing that gets assigned a random model, random mechanics, etc. and they ramp up the longer you go on with a wheel to spin to get random debuffs/buffs to increase payout.

3) Regarding Eureka. I made a post in the exploratory missions section of this forum. It was basically a procedurally generate map using a random tileset from all available dungeons/zones and dumped you in random spot on the unexplored map. Thematically, it was the idea of the 'item world' from Disgaea where we delve into the Relic itself to empower it.

It would have random monsters in the map that had "affixes" a la Mythic+ from WoW. These monsters could have mechanics that need to be interrupted (a la CC), kited away from other mobs, killed in specific order, flee and attempt to grab other mobs, random threat drops, or advanced AI like harassing healers, or focusing down players who suddenly get low on HP, etc.

The content scaled from 1 star to 5 stars, with 1 star being similar in difficulty to current dungeons. In 1 and 2 star difficulties mobs would have their 'affixes' listed above their nameplates and give context into their difficulty and if they were worth fighting or sneaking around. At 3 stars+, affixes were hidden and were only discernible when fighting the enemies.

You would clear enemies to fill a bar that spawns a boss in a random location on the map. You could then go hunt the boss, or keep killing mobs to spawn yet another. Bosses would have a random model (think like my Battle Arena concept) and randomly assigned mechanics. Availablity and quantity of mechanics would be directly related to the star difficult. I.e. a 1 star boss might have a tank cleave/buster, and 2 isolated mechanics. It'd be equivalent to fighting a dungeon boss at say min ilvl, with maybe marginally higher outgoing damage. At higher stars bosses would get more dangerous mechanics as well as multiples and they may begin overlapping. I.e. a tank cleave that needs to be shared, and lowers max HP on hit.

The idea behind this would be repeatable battle content that scales for all player skill levels while offering meaningful engagement and rewards. In addition to mobs and bosses there'd be treasure maps to explore (they grant an instant boss spawn as well).

In summary - the idea is that there should be better battle content that scales for multiple player types as well as better side content that is well designed enough to justify its inclusion and be fun enough to keep people playing it as well as offer viable alternatives to rewards.

I'm sick and tired of the official forum becoming a cesspool of moaning because of this, an echo chamber where ppl can insult everyone that doesn't share the opinion that the game is shit and the devs are imbeciles, calling them apologist and white knights, that's really immature.

To be fair, I find the hivemind to be unsettlingly defensive of the game and completely against any and all criticism. It's exceptionally common to see 'go play x instead' instead of actually debating the quality of the persons post.

SNIP - Coil stuff

Knocking us off the edge repeatedly in Titan, Levi, Bismarck, Sophia, Exdeath, Kefka? Zzzz. Piles of circle mechanics that have to be dodged in a certain order like Shiva EX, Titan bombs, and God Kefka Trine? Blah.

I think the devs could do more. I know you and I disagree a lot when it comes to WoW, but I just want to clarify that I DO think there are some great examples of raid fight design in XIV, we just haven't seen anything in my mind that sticks out since T7. It's all been "dodge AOEs or get knocked into a fire wall/off the edge/get one-shot".

I agree on Coil stuff thats why I snipped it. But I wanted to point out that I agree with your analysis there.

On the other bits though, I REALLY enjoyed Leviathan EX. It had the right kind of randomness and RNG and made the fight really fun. I also liked Exdeath Black Holes, but otherwise agree his mechanics were boring. I actually really like Trine. I think it's a good mechanic, but otherwise agree that pretty much Primals Shiva and further were way too scripted or generic. I really loved the control aspect of Moogle Mog, Levi's randomness, Ramuh was greatly designed, and the original 3 were all fine and dandy because they were different. I also REALLY enjoyed second coil. I felt like the content was a little less scripted and more dynamic.

[Kaonis]

1) Gold Saucer is downright criminally underused. Chocobo racing in its current implementation should be a felony. Much like my LoV suggestion they should have ported in a Mario Cart (or better yet Crash Team Racing) engine and let you race AI or friends for prizes. I'd have tied the entire Chocobo progression system, bardings, colors, and EXP/leveling/effects in here as well as other rewards (tomes, gil, materia, etc.) Then supply the playerbase with a tile editor and allow us to make our own maps to create and share with friends.

Really nice post. One thing I wanted to comment was here as it's another issue I have with the game presently. But the Gold Saucer also suffers from lack of rewards. Since it's been implemented we've seen next to nothing added to the vendors for rewards outside maybe an extra mount, a few hairstyles, the cactaur weapons, and that's about it that I recall? There's large swaths of time in between any additional items added, but it seems like every other week more and more items are added to the mog shop. I just find it alarming that a subscription game invests so much into their cash shop, but the mini game content that is meant to provide fluff rewards and get players to spend time doing activities and stick with the game is largely absent.

As for the games in the Gold Saucer, they seem to suffer from either being mindlessly boring (like the moogle claw or gilgamesh punch minigames) or needlessly complex like LoV.

[Shurrikhan]

On the other bits though, I REALLY enjoyed Leviathan EX. It had the right kind of randomness and RNG and made the fight really fun. I also liked Exdeath Black Holes, but otherwise agree his mechanics were boring. I actually really like Trine. I think it's a good mechanic, but otherwise agree that pretty much Primals Shiva and further were way too scripted or generic. I really loved the control aspect of Moogle Mog, Levi's randomness, Ramuh was greatly designed, and the original 3 were all fine and dandy because they were different. I also REALLY enjoyed second coil. I felt like the content was a little less scripted and more dynamic.

Damn. My opinion, too, has already been written, it seems.

/complete agreement

[Sylvina]

I've long felt that Yoshi-P's vision for the game is letting it stagnate. I know, everyone loves him, so I'll probably get some hate for this. He saved FF14, etc.. But then he did nothing with it. His vision for the game is one-dimensional.

I've been saying the same things since HW that a lot of people are saying here now. Everyone said "it's just the first expansion, give it time." Well, here we are in SB, and we're still playing ARR.

The basic formula works. it just needs a little refinement and slight variation from time to time. and consistent worldbuilding. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[RiyahArp]

There just isn't a good excuse for limitations like this when nearly every other MMOs offers a better system, including ones several years older than FFXIV.

a lot of FFXIV's problems are from the fact we can switch to any job, as well as crafters are their own distinct jobs, not a set of subskills. That puts a big load on the server since each character probably stores a lot more data than any other game. The limitations make sense; ideally they should just toss the job switch mechanic next MMO, and let us use more alts.

[Sylvina]

a lot of FFXIV's problems are from the fact we can switch to any job, as well as crafters are their own distinct jobs, not a set of subskills. That puts a big load on the server since each character probably stores a lot more data than any other game. The limitations make sense; ideally they should just toss the job switch mechanic next MMO, and let us use more alts.

The fact I can be any job on one character is a huge reason I love this game. Take it away and in I wont be playing their next mmo. But FFXIV will last until the next great super hero MMO comes out and when it does I will play that. If an independent studio doesn't do it marvel will eventually.

[Tridus]

a lot of FFXIV's problems are from the fact we can switch to any job, as well as crafters are their own distinct jobs, not a set of subskills. That puts a big load on the server since each character probably stores a lot more data than any other game. The limitations make sense; ideally they should just toss the job switch mechanic next MMO, and let us use more alts.

Storage is cheap. You only need in memory what job you currently *are*, and to change that if you swap (which is why you can't swap in combat, mid craft, and such).

3) Regarding Eureka. I made a post in the exploratory missions section of this forum. It was basically a procedurally generate map using a random tileset from all available dungeons/zones and dumped you in random spot on the unexplored map. Thematically, it was the idea of the 'item world' from Disgaea where we delve into the Relic itself to empower it.

Sold! The item world is one of Disgaea's best things.

[KaldeaSahaline]

The basic formula works. it just needs a little refinement and slight variation from time to time. and consistent worldbuilding. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Alternatively just because something is "good" doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be better.

We can throw cool little quips all day long but at the end of the day; the game, as good as it is, has staggering issues and areas that need improvement. The formula is easily one of those, as well as many other topics.

Sold! The item world is one of Disgaea's best things.

Haha, yeah I liked it too. I thought it was a neat concept thematically, and it meshes mechanically with the design I set forth, and then simultaneously solves the problems of "lacking" (repeatable, scalable, engaging) combat issues in one shot, as well as making a relic grind less of a chore to players like me, by allowing me to do more engaging activities to acquire it.

[Sylvina]

Alternatively just because something is "good" doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be better.

I agree with you but I don't think changing the basic formula in a huge way will make it better, it could but it has a high chance to make it worse. Smaller changes are what I would suggest. I was merely making a statement that the basic formula works.

[Hestzhyen]

I agree with you but I don't think changing the basic formula in a huge way will make it better, it could but it has a high chance to make it worse. Smaller changes are what I would suggest. I was merely making a statement that the basic formula works.

I think small changes are appropriate in the short term, but they're going to have to do some BIG changes to the back-end sooner or later. Dollars to doughnuts that's what's holding the game back the most at the moment.

SE, if you tell me 5.0 is a total technical overhaul to bring this game into <current year> and list all the improvements you can commit to making because of it, I will be sold. I don't need a new race, or even a new job. Just an unmistakable sign that the game is getting the work-over it so desperately seems to need.