What's your first impression of Eureka?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The system itself is innovative for FFXIV. The leveling system is not the same as we're used to, and the map itself is dangerous at lower levels and makes you think twice when moving from a point to another.

And it's not deep, yeah. It has pottential but it feels incomplete yet.

But still, I rather grind doing something new than spamming low-level dungeons or FATEs that we've already seen.
If we keep providing feedback, they might tune it for the next steps.

But if we start hating it just because it's something new and not providing good feedback, they'll just switch to the old BORING relic system, and I wouldn't like that. I'd rather an improved Eureka than another dungeon grindfest.

You are mistaking innovation for re-use. The former implies implementing either a new idea or reinventing an existing system to function entirely differently. All that changed about the leveling system is lower EXP totals. Making open world monsters actually hurt isn't innovation. If those monsters had mechanics beyond basic auto attacks and orange ground aoes, you could make a strong case for something new. These are just existing trash with stats scaled up significantly higher.

As would I. This preference does not make Eureka innovative though. Instead of going to Stone Vigil, we're pulling one or two mobs at a time in Eureka until something better spawns. Notorious Monsters are actually quite engaging but the trash monster spam isn't.

And people have offered feedback. Numerous posts have requested things such as quest chains, daily challenges and priority targets. One I particularly liked was bringing the hunt log back to provide players a direct goal. Take that concept and run with it; allowing people to spawn their own mini-NMs or something to that effect. Offering positive feedback towards something many people simply dislike helps no one. That doesn't mean they want Eureka abandoned wholesale. Just that they aren't happy with its current state. SE really only has themselves to blame, what with the constant hype, lackluster information and delays. This built up expectations they couldn't meet, thus people are upset.

[Krotoan]

It's actually not. Once you hit Lv.20, you're done forever. At least until they raise the level cap (if they even do it). The elemental level is shared by all jobs, so you only have to level once. Except if you die a lot without getting a raise, obviously. I made 72k EXP in two hours yesterday. That was enough for a level. I expect that time to increase a bit, but not much, as people will keep being able to spawn higher and higher Fates.
Compare that time to the other kind of leveling systems there is in FFXIV, and you'll realize that the Eureka one isn't that bad.
This is subjective. I find leveling my other jobs in PotD to be very boring and brainless. On the other hand, I enjoy leveling in Eureka, for multiple reasons. I'm not saying that this is the pinnacle of fun by any stretch, but grinding Fates in N.Thal, getting Atmas, doing books, gathering light, going A1S again an again, doing years old content, and so on... isn't what I'd call "fun" either. I'm just aware that I'm playing a mainstream WoW-like MMORPG, which helps not raising my standards too much. If I wanted true novelty and innovation, I wouldn't be playing FFXIV. So, I'd say that people's standards and expectations are part of the issue.

PoTD leveling has always been a weird point for me. People say it's the most efficient but I cannot for the life of me bring myself to PoTD for that long , over and over. I'd rather daily roulette and beastman quest. Varied experiences with changing mechanics and pauses in between. For someone like me, Eureka is that PoTD grind but it's the ONLY way to get those levels. That's why I have a problem with it.

Call them trash if you want, but they won't hesitate in one-shotting you faster than God Kefka if you are careless. Besides, almost all the "trash mobs" have different kind of attacks. Some cleave, some have ranged AoE, some petrify you, some apply a potent poison, some jump all over the place... Even if it's small, you have to adapt to them in some way. The terrain also plays a part in this.
Sure, it's still farming trash mobs. But a lot of FFXIV is actually exactly that, would it be dungeons, fates, PotD...

I mean, they hurt worse than overworld mobs, but anything but NM's aren't going to one shot you. And once you find your flavour of the .. next 20 minutes it's not going to change and you can autopilot the everliving hell out of it. Trash mobs ARE trash mobs, but dungeons mix it up from pack to pack. Eureka is just a long drink of lukewarm water.

If there was no penalty for dying, Eureka wouldn't feel threatening at all. There is danger because the consequences of your death do exist and are harsh. And I absolutly doesn't see any other method to make you feel that way.
Another thing to note is how people have responded to that mechanic: players are actually helping each other. They will raise you because they expect you to do the same for them. Since there's absolutly no competition and that the most efficient way of doing things is to cooperate and be helpful, well, people are actually doing exactly that. Frankly, it's been a while since I entered an instance with so much positivity all over the place. You may not like that mechanic, but you cannot deny the good things it generates.

You know what would be a good penalty for dying? Getting warped back to the starting point and having no aetherytes except the main one. MAYBE make it so if your party is still alive they can res you but once everyone is out of battle , pewf, homepoint. You miss out on some XP, you gotta walk back, you maybe miss out on the rest of the NM because you can't get back fast enough. Cost, danger and no 2 hour setback. People rez-ing others simply because they hope to god someone else will do the same for them since the death penalty sucks so very badly is not a positive for the game, it does give me hope for the playerbase though.

Frankly, this is up to SE. If they keep updating it with new rewards and keep the thing living. But, as I already said, it's already an effective method to get some not-so-bad gear for alt jobs while tomestones and raid equipement is still somewhat precious. So even if the numbers drop, it should still be populated enough.

If the formula never changes there will be the people farming at 20, and then a scattering of people trying to level solo to 15 or so when they'll be viable for the 20 people to pick up. Ideally the lowbies will group up , but since disparity in level is so harshly punished this seems unlikely. True its not a bad way to gear up an alt job quick, but it's not like you're going back to old content to do it. You'll be farming the 20+ NMs.

So, overall, I think it's fine. Really.
It's clearly not some mind blowing content and it obviously has been overhyped (I still think that people are somewhat responsible for their own expectations though)... But it's not a disaster either. The map is great, the feeling of danger is somehow refreshing and brings good player interactions, the monsters (both trash and NMs) are interesting enough. While the rewards are lacking, gearing my alt jobs is enough to keep me interested... and hopefully SE will update it right in time when they need to.
It sure has its flaws, but saying it's 100% garbage is dishonest.

100% garbage? Of course not. A lot of things I personally don't like and wish I didn't have to deal with for the rewards they've locked behind it? Most definitely.

[Kaonis]

It's actually not. Once you hit Lv.20, you're done forever. At least until they raise the level cap (if they even do it). The elemental level is shared by all jobs, so you only have to level once. Except if you die a lot without getting a raise, obviously. I made 72k EXP in two hours yesterday. That was enough for a level. I expect that time to increase a bit, but not much, as people will keep being able to spawn higher and higher Fates.
Compare that time to the other kind of leveling systems there is in FFXIV, and you'll realize that the Eureka one isn't that bad.

Except you're not done because death can make you lose a level. You even mention it later in your post, but I'll address it now. Losing exp and deleveling is an awful system. There is a reason MMO's moved away from that punishing mechanic a decade ago. Hell, even FFXI has eased up on that significantly over the years and was never as harsh as this. The slow leveling isn't even the core issue, the issues is the levels themselves are an arbitrary grind. Strip it away and nothing of value is lost. It's literally max level players being forced to re-level so they can fight stronger mobs. It could have been more interesting like say tying the elemental system to it by getting elemental abilities that you can only use in Eureka and are your core gameplay. But there's nothing substantial to leveling but to pad out the grind.

This is subjective. I find leveling my other jobs in PotD to be very boring and brainless. On the other hand, I enjoy leveling in Eureka, for multiple reasons. I'm not saying that this is the pinnacle of fun by any stretch, but grinding Fates in N.Thal, getting Atmas, doing books, gathering light, going A1S again an again, doing years old content, and so on... isn't what I'd call "fun" either.

On the bolded part I can agree. Though 2 main points. 1) Those grinds were better designed, if not by much. A lot of the time FATE's let you go on any job so you could at least level an alt while you do it. The light steps gave you more variety in activities despite repeating old content. 2) The major point I wish to make here is a lot of people griping on Eureka are also griping on

I'm just aware that I'm playing a mainstream WoW-like MMORPG, which helps not raising my standards too much. If I wanted true novelty and innovation, I wouldn't be playing FFXIV. So, I'd say that people's standards and expectations are part of the issue.

Even WoW innovated their game every expansion. And innovating, at least their own game, is something MMO's need to do to survive. They aren't single player games to be done and forgotten, they are active games that are supposed to evolve over the years. XI was only as successful as it was because they kept adding new kinds of content over the years and pushed what was possible with their engine.

Frankly, this is up to SE. If they keep updating it with new rewards and keep the thing living. But, as I already said, it's already an effective method to get some not-so-bad gear for alt jobs while tomestones and raid equipement is still somewhat precious. So even if the numbers drop, it should still be populated enough.

It's up to players, it's always up to the players. Diadem died because all it was was a shallow carrot on a stick system. The carrot wasn't worth it so people quit fast. They gave a slightly better carrot this time (relic), but it ultimately won't be enough to keep players. Ultimately if people aren't having fun with the system then whatever reward you put in won't matter.

It's clearly not some mind blowing content and it obviously has been overhyped

There has been no hype. People have literally stated they just want it to not be Diadem, and yet it's what it is. If anything what I've seen from people is essentially "I had no expectations for this, and yet it still somehow disappointed me".

It sure has its flaws, but saying it's 100% garbage is dishonest.

You're right, the map is nice. So, about 99% garbage then.

[Snowborn]

I really don't like Eureka. I loved FFXI. I gave it an honest try. I've spent probably 10 hours in there and I'm extremely disappointed.

I hope you make the rewards *much* better and the overall playstyle less tedious. The problem is definitely the tedium/slowness/lack of reward.

[Fredco191]

Eh.. Not my cup of tea. I’m actually kind of mad that they put gatherer and crafter gear in there for glamouring instead of simply unlocking the actual sets.

[Fyce]

PoTD leveling has always been a weird point for me. People say it's the most efficient but I cannot for the life of me bring myself to PoTD for that long , over and over. I'd rather daily roulette and beastman quest. Varied experiences with changing mechanics and pauses in between. For someone like me, Eureka is that PoTD grind but it's the ONLY way to get those levels. That's why I have a problem with it.

This paragraph wasn't for you then. It was to point a finger towards people who throw themselves into that sort of grind all the time, but come on the forums saying Eureka is bad. "I'll happily turn my brain off to do hundreds of A1S, but I'd rather cancel my sub than doing Eureka". That makes no sense. FFXIV is filled with what people consider "bad grinds". Yet, people do them all the time.

I mean, they hurt worse than overworld mobs, but anything but NM's aren't going to one shot you. And once you find your flavour of the .. next 20 minutes it's not going to change and you can autopilot the everliving hell out of it. Trash mobs ARE trash mobs, but dungeons mix it up from pack to pack. Eureka is just a long drink of lukewarm water.

They pretty much all have a mechanic of their own. This is better than 90% of the rest of the game when it comes to "trash mobs". And yes, people get one-shotted a lot. It just takes one idiot to pull a cleaving water snake into the group and you now have to raise 10 people.
Besides, do you think your argument is still valid if you are just 4-8 people trying to get a high level Fate to spawn? I know for a fact that when we go in there with 4 people and try to diverge from the Fate train if we deem it not worth (ie "let's go to the other side of the map to spawn the lord!" - "B...But guys, it's windy and we are next to the typhoon sprites... Oh well"), you can be sure that we aren't playing the way we usually do when we do a random expert roulette.

You know what would be a good penalty for dying? Getting warped back to the starting point and having no aetherytes except the main one. MAYBE make it so if your party is still alive they can res you but once everyone is out of battle , pewf, homepoint. You miss out on some XP, you gotta walk back, you maybe miss out on the rest of the NM because you can't get back fast enough. Cost, danger and no 2 hour setback. People rez-ing others simply because they hope to god someone else will do the same for them since the death penalty sucks so very badly is not a positive for the game, it does give me hope for the playerbase though.

You don't want to lose EXP for dying, but you are okay with being denied EXP from a Fate? That's pretty much the same thing. And your "MAYBE [...]" completly makes your suggestion worthless, as it's almost exactly like what we have now. People will raise you anyway, and you won't lose anything. And I bet you that a lot more people would find it way more infuriating to be warped back to camp every time they get killed by whatever. Even if I'm a tank and that I'm not dying that much, I cannot imagine how I'd feel if that happened.

If the formula never changes there will be the people farming at 20, and then a scattering of people trying to level solo to 15 or so when they'll be viable for the 20 people to pick up. Ideally the lowbies will group up , but since disparity in level is so harshly punished this seems unlikely. True its not a bad way to gear up an alt job quick, but it's not like you're going back to old content to do it. You'll be farming the 20+ NMs.

You can't farm the "20+ NMs". There's only one which is Lv.20. And once you get it down, you either try going in another instance, or join the Fate train to get some crystals.

100% garbage? Of course not. A lot of things I personally don't like and wish I didn't have to deal with for the rewards they've locked behind it? Most definitely.

If you don't like it, then you shouldn't like a lot of the examples of "bad grinds" I gave either. "Good grinds" are an exception. Especially in FFXIV.

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Except you're not done because death can make you lose a level. You even mention it later in your post, but I'll address it now.

I mentionned it not any later than the very paragraph you quoted... Whatever.

Losing exp and deleveling is an awful system. There is a reason MMO's moved away from that punishing mechanic a decade ago. Hell, even FFXI has eased up on that significantly over the years and was never as harsh as this. The slow leveling isn't even the core issue, the issues is the levels themselves are an arbitrary grind. Strip it away and nothing of value is lost. It's literally max level players being forced to re-level so they can fight stronger mobs. It could have been more interesting like say tying the elemental system to it by getting elemental abilities that you can only use in Eureka and are your core gameplay. But there's nothing substantial to leveling but to pad out the grind.

It seems like you think that you'll die and lose EXP all the time. That's absolutly not true. Especially at Lv.20 where 80-90% of the enemies aren't threatening anymore. People try to turn it into a big deal, but when you actually go in Eureka, it's obviously not as big of an issue as people claim. I'm level 13. I've not lot EXP once. And again, the more Lv.20 there will be, the more people will be able to come to you and give you a raise.

Whatever the case, you also seem to think that using another grind method than giving a new leveling phase to people would've been better. Well, that's not true and you know it. People would've complained no matter what type of grind. Besides, not everyone hates leveling.

On the bolded part I can agree. Though 2 main points. 1) Those grinds were better designed, if not by much. A lot of the time FATE's let you go on any job so you could at least level an alt while you do it. The light steps gave you more variety in activities despite repeating old content. 2) The major point I wish to make here is a lot of people griping on Eureka are also griping on

So, you agree with the main point that FFXIV is filled with bad grind. Let's keep that in mind for now.
Though I disagree that the old grinds were better. No, PotD isn't better. No, farming A1S wasn't better. No, farming chocobo races hundreds of time isn't a better grind either.
A lot of these grinds have absolutly zero "variety" like you claim. "You can level alt jobs while Atma farming!" Well, you can gear alt jobs while Eureka farming. I wouldn't call that "variety" though.

Even WoW innovated their game every expansion. And innovating, at least their own game, is something MMO's need to do to survive. They aren't single player games to be done and forgotten, they are active games that are supposed to evolve over the years. XI was only as successful as it was because they kept adding new kinds of content over the years and pushed what was possible with their engine.

FFXIV is itself the very example of a counterpoint to your argument. You claim that innovation is vital for MMO(RPGs). You imply that FFXIV isn't innovating. So... FFXIV should be dead by your own logic.
Either FFXIV do innovate, or innovation isn't actually vital. Pick one.

It's up to players, it's always up to the players. Diadem died because all it was was a shallow carrot on a stick system. The carrot wasn't worth it so people quit fast. They gave a slightly better carrot this time (relic), but it ultimately won't be enough to keep players. Ultimately if people aren't having fun with the system then whatever reward you put in won't matter.

Just two paragraphs above, you agreed with me on the fact that FFXIV is filled with "bad grinds". Yet, people are doing these grinds. People did grind A1S. They did grind Atmas. They did their animus books. There are still people farming PotD for hours as their main source of class EXP. And people did farm Fates in N.Thanalan. They did all that. And for what? Because it was fun? No. Absolutly not. It was simply for the reward.
Again, the history of FFXIV itself proves you wrong.

There has been no hype. People have literally stated they just want it to not be Diadem, and yet it's what it is. If anything what I've seen from people is essentially "I had no expectations for this, and yet it still somehow disappointed me".

That's completly not true. There was definitly hype everywhere. People were impatient to get Eureka for the day it was announced. "We waited all this time for this?!" is extremely common. I don't know who you missed these opinions.

You're right, the map is nice. So, about 99% garbage then.

I'm not even surprised anymore.

Whatever. People say they hate bad grinding, but they are playing FFXIV. That simple fact is so absurd that I don't know why I'm even trying to argue.
When this forum wants to hate something, there's no inbetween. No compromise. Absolutly everything sucks, no matter what. And people who actually enjoy it or simply think that some parts are ok are wrong and none of their points will make any difference.

I guess I'll simply play the game and enjoy it like thousands other players and not bother giving feedback then.

[Krotoan]

This paragraph wasn't for you then. It was to point a finger towards people who throw themselves into that sort of grind all the time, but come on the forums saying Eureka is bad. "I'll happily turn my brain off to do hundreds of A1S, but I'd rather cancel my sub than doing Eureka". That makes no sense. FFXIV is filled with what people consider "bad grinds". Yet, people do them all the time.

OK, does this mean we need another one? You seem to see this is a "bad grind". And yes I only have to do it once, but it's grueling and I don't like it and have no alternative for the rewards. I understand I can leave it, but they've put something that used to be behind things I was OK with and put it behind something I've never liked. I'm going to speak up about that.

They pretty much all have a mechanic of their own. This is better than 90% of the rest of the game when it comes to "trash mobs". And yes, people get one-shotted a lot. It just takes one idiot to pull a cleaving water snake into the group and you now have to raise 10 people.
Besides, do you think your argument is still valid if you are just 4-8 people trying to get a high level Fate to spawn? I know for a fact that when we go in there with 4 people and try to diverge from the Fate train if we deem it not worth (ie "let's go to the other side of the map to spawn the lord!" - "B...But guys, it's windy and we are next to the typhoon sprites... Oh well"), you can be sure that we aren't playing the way we usually do when we do a random expert roulette.

Your point is very subjective. To how I play , how you play and our typical experiences. I've not had to think above my normal routlette mindset yet, most times not even close to that and only when doing the actual NMs. But different views out of the same train. I'll not argue that point.

You don't want to lose EXP for dying, but you are okay with being denied EXP from a Fate? That's pretty much the same thing. And your "MAYBE [...]" completly makes your suggestion worthless, as it's almost exactly like what we have now. People will raise you anyway, and you won't lose anything. And I bet you that a lot more people would find it way more infuriating to be warped back to camp every time they get killed by whatever. Even if I'm a tank and that I'm not dying that much, I cannot imagine how I'd feel if that happened.

The difference is one of those I've lost something I HAD, the other is I lost a potential something. One prioritizes being careful but punishes opportunity instead of creating a debt. I am OK with losing a chance at something, I'm not OK with losing something I've earned and had in my hand. I can die multiple times and delevel with the current system. If I have a run of bad luck in my proposed system I simply do not progress. I cannot speak for everyone, only myself. However neither can you and both of us only have our friends/FC mates to judge that off of. I am opposed to losing XP as a death punishment. The maybe was meant as a concession since res has to be useful for something, and the risk is still there if your res dies first. A combat res pot would also make a welcome addition to the lockbox pool of fireworks and other gil fodder.

You can't farm the "20+ NMs". There's only one which is Lv.20. And once you get it down, you either try going in another instance, or join the Fate train to get some crystals.

If you don't like it, then you shouldn't like a lot of the examples of "bad grinds" I gave either. "Good grinds" are an exception. Especially in FFXIV.

I'm level 5, I don't know what 10+ is like. I assumed they'd have something more challenging for max levels. It still stands though, you're going to be farming the capped NMs while new people languish in their low level grind. I'm not talking about now. There's still a decent amount of people trying it out and getting into it. A couple months from now though it's going to be pretty barren in the low areas.
I really don't like " bad grinds" usually. Most of them are not as monotonous as this one is and I'm a little taken aback that people are embracing it like it isn't.

[Fynlar]

Tried going in again, but it sucks even more than it did before because all anyone wants to do now is the NMs, except that either I usually can't reach the NMs before they die, I die either trying to get there or at the NM itself, and even if I'm there, the NM doesn't even load on my screen because there's too many people. So whatever, I'm done with this until they actually make the non-hunt aspect of it more viable.

[Rita1989]

Tried going in again, but it sucks even more than it did before because all anyone wants to do now is the NMs, except that either I usually can't reach the NMs before they die, I die either trying to get there or at the NM itself, and even if I'm there, the NM doesn't even load on my screen because there's too many people. So whatever, I'm done with this until they actually make the non-hunt aspect of it more viable.

It is viable and is actually better if your targeting a few level's above you and going after NM's when they spawn but people are lazy so instead everyone follows a train of people and afk until a NM spawns.

They need to nerf xp so that doing an NM that is above or below your current level range gives close to 0 xp so you would only want to target NM's around your level otherwise this zergfest will be all Eureka is.

[Fynlar]

It is viable and is actually better if your targeting a few level's above you and going after NM's when they spawn but people are lazy so instead everyone follows a train of people and afk until a NM spawns.

What's viable to you is not to me. Trash mobs just yield too little no matter what approach you take in here. Tried solo, tried light party, tried full party, they're all snail-pace slow.

Considering the low value of the rewards in this zone, it has no business being this slow.

It should be noted that I am no stranger to a grind; I've finished all 2.x relics, I have the 10k FATE achievement (without even specifically trying for it, for that matter), among probably other things I can't remember right now. Even for me, this is still absurdly excessive for what we're getting out of it. If that doesn't say anything...