SE You may want to reconsider charging for this

[TheVedis]

Might I say that not all americans are stupid enough to camp out for a deal after a major holiday, that we can easily get 2 days after the major holiday, or even the day after that.

black friday logic: that computer is 500 dollars cheaper then usual, i dont need it, but its such a deal that im going to stand in line for 50 hours, for a chance at getting one of the 5 they will put on sale.

normal person logic: i dont need anything they have for sale, and i wanna sleep in, screw black friday

[Belial]

black friday logic: that computer is 500 dollars cheaper then usual, i dont need it, but its such a deal that im going to stand in line for 50 hours, for a chance at getting one of the 5 they will put on sale.

normal person logic: i dont need anything they have for sale, and i wanna sleep in, screw black friday

Smart logic: I can build a far superior and cheaper PC by ordering parts online. I don't understand why people buy PCs from chains anymore.

[darkstarpoet1]

you never used slow, drain, bio, bio, poison? i did

you guys don't see anything wrong with an mmorpg with no DOT or debuffs

no, they stated before they didn't use them so i pointed out how horrible of an endgame mage they would have been and how quickly they would have been booted from parties with skilled players for not using them.

only a pathetic excuse of a mage wouldn't have used those skills.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

Remember when DoT allowed you to do things like this?





That is what I miss. Not what we have now. :P

[PrettyPrincess]

no, they stated before they didn't use them so i pointed out how horrible of an endgame mage they would have been and how quickly they would have been booted from parties with skilled players for not using them.

only a pathetic excuse of a mage wouldn't have used those skills.

Oh I didn't know I needed those to kill Ifrit in less than 6 minutes. I must have been doing it wrong.

[Meow_Zedong]

Facts:

1. They plan to charge after streamlining, simplifying, balancing, and over-all improving the existing class skill sets. They also plan to wait until a later date to introduce job classes, to allow new players to have something to look forward to.

Perhaps they should focus on current players and previous players, rather than new players. I don't expect to see a huge quantity of boxed sales on news that new jobs have been released and a payment system implemented.

They aren't FOCUSING on new players, they are allowing them a good jumping on point. There is nothing in the battle changes that go against old players, just trolls like you that complain without even trying to see if you like the changes.

2. They plan to introduce several chunks of new content in 1.20, including a new Primal battle, new quests, new company leves, and end-game Caravan Escorts. In addition to this, the battle class reforms are sure to make all previous content fresh and new.

The existing escort system is fail. The WoW like run in a circle quests that were implemented in the past are fail, so I would expect new ones to be relatively similar. A primal battle sounds like fun, but if its implemented in a similar way to ifrit, then its not much content at all.

This entire section is irrelevant. "Fail" is an opinion. I love the Caravan Escorts (especially trying to solo them.) The lore involved with the quests are basically 90% of the reason I still play. I said this in another thread, if you hate the content, that's your opinion and you can go do something else. But you can't say that the content is not there, it's staring you in the face and plenty of other people enjoy it. And they've already said the Dark Moogle battle will be different from Ifrit because it will be against a full party of mobs and focus on crowd control. Sounds like fun to me.

3. They have already stated the game is not up to bar because the only thing it is missing is a player search function and an auction house. Both of which will be coming in 1.20

Right... v1.20 makes the game 100% great? That must be why they are making that version 2.0. This one really made me laugh out loud, really.

An MMO is constantly changing. YES, according to the DEVELOPERS, Patch 1.20 makes the game 100% launch-worthy. It's not in "beta" it's not "incomplete". It's perfectly ready to be released and paid for. That in no way means they are done making it better. That will never occur because THAT IS NOT HOW MMO'S WORK.

Personal Observations

1. I never have trouble finding a party for any purpose. Even if the dozens of people constantly chatting on my ls are all busy,
shouts in Uldah are near constant and I can put together a group with minimal effort. The player search function added in 1.20 will make this even easier.

Not all servers are made equally and your perception is different than my perception. If you consider putting a group together within a 2 hour time frame "minimal effort" then I guess you are right.

Well it sucks to be you, I guess. If your server is really as bad as you say it is (which I doubt) then I'm sure SE will consider mergers. As it is, I'm on Fabul, a 1-chocobo server. And it's never taken me more than half an hour to put together a party. Compare that to FFXI where it could take WEEKS and people still payed for that game for ten years.

2. I realize that all gear eventually becomes obsolete, and Darkhold gear is rather old. I also realize that gear is a perk, and shouldn't be the sole reason for running a raid. I continue to run Darkhold on a regular basis because I find the stress involved with the time limit and dodging the eye to be enjoyable and with each try I get closer and closer to the 5-chest time bonus.

Dzemael Darkhold was released in patch 1.18. We are currently playing patch 1.19. Patch 1.19 was released on or around 07/21/2011 and patch 1.19 was released on or around 09/29/2011 making the average time difference around 70 days. To me, that is not a long time.

It also demonstrates that they are not clearly thinking about changes they are making to the existing game. As far as you finding Darkhold fun, that's great, but you are in the minority. Most people I know do not find Darkhold fun, and do not run it other than to help someone complete the quest.

As other people have said. I'm not in the minority. Every single person I've talked to loves the Darkhold, and other people say the same thing. You are just taking your personal experiences and treating it as fact (or just lying.) And yes, every time a patch comes out, most of the old gear will become obsolete. That's why we have patches, to BRING IN NEW CONTENT AND GEAR. That's pretty much standard and I don't see how you have a problem with it. Personally, 70 days sounds like a perfectly average amount of time to get the gear you want and make use of it before getting new stuff.

3. Ifrit has quickly become the most challenging and strategic battle in the game, and learning the patterns as well as adapting to the animation lock is quite fun, almost like the boss of an old school platforming game. Lag and faulty loot systems are a known problem, and are being addressed as soon as possible. The loot system is being changed in 1.20.

I am sorry, I simply don't think a boss fight that relies heavily on lag in tandem with inherent game flaws is fun

Once again, irrelevant because that is your opinion, and once again the minority. Yeah lots of people have an issue with the lag and animaton lock but they still find the battle to be fun. That's why you see 50+ people outside the aether gate every night. (at least on my server). Like others have said, this battle was damn near constantly asked for, so for you to tell us that "it's bad" because YOU don't like it is absurd.

4. There is a plethora of activities to do in the game and it is never boring. Grinding on jobs to achieve higher levels is not only fun, but it opens up opportunities for new quests and activities. This game also includes one of the most interesting and detailed crafting systems out there in the MMO world. I realize classes will never be erased because they are integral to solo play and are just as important as jobs in different situations.

Ok...

Oh don't give me that. It's an MMO, there is going to be a grind. Many people play MMO's because...OH WAIT, we find grinding to be fun and rewarding. I'll admit I'm not so much in the majority on this one detail, but we do exist. And trust me, the grind in this game is nothing compared to older, more fun games.

[edited - more of the same]

TL;DR: I can make my opinions look like fact too.


And what follows is another instance of you telling us that your opinion is fact:


My original post was to appeal to them to keep the game free at its core for one reason and one reason alone:

If it goes pay to play, those who pay, will find themselves very alone.

You have no way of proving that, and I completely disagree.

Since this is a MMO, you need other people to play it with you.

Not even counting the fact that NO YOU DON'T (plenty of people solo) I can guarantee that at the very least I will have people to play with. My LS is over 60 strong and maybe...2 of them will be leaving when the sub hits. That's not a very scientific survey but it can be argued that much more people will be paying for this game than you probably think.

If the population falls to a point that its not possible to play the game with other people (which is already starting on my server) then people who are willing to pay will start to question whether or not its warranted.

Once again, I find this hard to believe, being on a completely populated 1-Chocobo server, but I have no evidence to support this because I've never been to other servers. Your previous accusations don't give you very much credibility though.

So in the end it is very possible that all SE accomplishes is upsetting its most white knight, devoted fanboygirls (a.k.a. You)

I hate the term white knight, as if it is literally impossible to actually enjoy the game, so anyone that likes it is just a fanboy. If may be a fanboy, but at least I spend my time actually enjoying the game, instead of hating it and playing anyway just to be a miserable complaining troll.

Sorry to be on-topic, I know the conversation is completely different now, lol. I just can't stand not responding to this guy. I know I shouldn't feed the troll but...ugh.

[Airget]

I"m fully aware the following will most likely result in massive flaming but upon observation I've noticed this. I didn't think I would actually admit this but upon playing the current beta phase of SWTOR it just feels a lot more refined then what XIV can offer atm. Sure it may not have the best of the best graphics but what it does offer still looks beautiful and fulfills the job of an MMO to immerse yourself into the land. When it comes to XI and XIV they really fall flat in the fact that you are pretty much glued to the ground and limited by invisible barriers when it comes to actually traversing the land. When XIV had come out I was really hoping that the areas would feel more open, you'd be able to jump down cliffs if you wanted to and take shortcuts where you see fit. Though something like this can easily be overseen if there is content one can immerse themselves into.

Combat:
XIV: While it has evolved over time and is still evolving as it goes into p2p from the start point it has gone from this. We started with a pure command system with bad latency of reaction with abilities and the use of stamina for a limitation in combat. It then evolved into an auto-battle system in which stamina was reduced and everything was altered to fit the new battle system, while it was done pretty well it did pretty much go backwards from the original design though it did eliminate the need for having to press 1 1 1 to gain TP. Now things are being altered to allow for an easier way to manage and define each class which is hard to see how it will pan out but as is stands now it's pretty much 2 tanks, 1 healer and rest DD class setup. While sure one could set a cure spell it does appear that CON will turn into the person that's always needed in a party while other classes could be seen as expendable. The main issue when it comes to combat though is the latency between when your abilities activate upon using them which can be noticeable most of the time and can in a sense slow down the process of battle. Then I would also agree the aspect of having to pull out your weapon to engage in battle also slows down the speed of battle.
SWTOR: Pretty much does what XIV did at the start but right. There is no auto-battle and input is all done by you, the commands suffer little to no latency upon using them and the battles do feel very active and lively. While things may appear easy early on it does become increasingly difficult as you continue on so you do find yourself making use of every ability you have while in XIV one can say that they don't find a use for every ability offered.
--
It's just the last few weeks I had actually been enjoying XIV and crafting with the idea of getting my classes to 50 for 2.0 since what they have planned does sound interesting. But when you consider everything in the game now it's pretty much, linear stories, some quest, 2-4 dungeons, 1 primal fight, 3-4 strongholds, leves. Even though the areas do look neat and are fun to explore the lack of content they provide overall takes away the novelty of those areas. While it was fun going into a dungeon and farming keys off mobs after a while the novelty of it just got dull.

When you consider what an upcoming MMO like SWTOR has to offer you have the story, quest lots of quest to do along with over 10 planets to explore. You have a codex that shows you how much of the planet you've explored and all the things you've found including secrets hidden within the environment. I believe 8 flashpoints which are pretty much dungeons with no time limits and interactive choices which can add re-playability to them. They also have flashpoints in which one gather ability may be used to create shortcuts or access areas that may normally be blocked off which is something I wish XIV would consider incorporating. I was extremely surprised that they had actually put gather nodes in flashpoints that you could interact with to expand on the current setting you are placed in, it definitely peaked my interest as to what the higher level flashpoints may hide with the right gather crew skill.

But ya, the point I"m trying to make and the reason why I bring up SWTOR is because XIV plans on charging around the time this game is released, and when you compare what both games have XIV can't compete as it stands now. It just doesn't have the content that allows it to start charging when you have a game coming in behind that not only has an equally strong or even stronger fanbase then FF but it also has the content to back it up and keep people interested in it.

Also because of it's choice in graphics their ability to process new content will be much faster then XIV can offer since they don't have to spend as much time rendering highly defined looking gear or even new zones. it is possible that XIV may be able to surpass in 2.0 if done right, but if they believe they'll actually get a good amount of people to pay I think they'll be sad to see how much the population dies down upon the charge time.

I really was considering paying the sub fee to try out the new things but like the OP it just doesn't show that it's worth paying for. While I wish I could say it is it just lacks the substance to allow it to start charging. It really comes down to them though, I wonder if they'll retract the sub fee after they see how much the pop suffers upon using it, but by then it could be to late.

Like others have mentioned they have seen the pop dwindling while it's still free and this could also be because of the change to class actions. I doubt people are willing to pay for a game after trying it out for a week or two. They pretty much stripped THM of what they were so any player who had enjoyed that class might have already left the game in rage over the changes. But ya, like mot will say just come back at 2.0. Which I might do since I do think it could work out, but it does seem like they might be alienating a lot of potential customers charging at this point of time when another MMO that does have more to offer is coming out. They shouldn't start charging until they are 100% sure the game can stand on it's own. Since they do only feel like the game is 50% ready then that's a bad time to start charging. Maybe we'll get some news this week about their plans or even how much they want to start charging, though sadly I just don't see many people paying this upcoming December.

[captainpicard]

Sorry to be on-topic, I know the conversation is completely different now, lol. I just can't stand not responding to this guy. I know I shouldn't feed the troll but...ugh.

I didn't include the color coded reply to a reply to a reply to a reply but people can scroll up if they want to review that.

Frankly, you seem out of control to me.

I just made some observations. Take them or leave them. You just lost your cool. Its this type of absurdly emotional ranting that I reference when I refer to white knights.

[Rubicon]

You can't compare SWTOR with FFXIV. SWTOR is a beta that feels like a completed game. FFXIV is a completed game that feels like a beta.

[captainpicard]

...

Well said. I think you have made some insightful points here. Although I don't think this games survival hinges on the other game you reference in your comments, I do think it will hurt this games population quite a bit. Not being a fan of that other series myself, I participated in the beta and found that it made this game look sad. It served as a harsh reminder of how far this game has to come to even begin to feel polished and renovated. The competition has definitely been raising the bar.