Dev blog: New Feast rewards

**Awha** · 03-13-2018 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Aviars

Snip . . .

You still have your million though so why does it bother you so much? You still have your own satisfaction, that is what I do not understand. Why is your satisfaction for your accomplishment based around how few people were able to receive the goal. In the context of money I can see how giving everyone one million dollars would detract from the value, but for an item in a video game? I do not see it. Since the value of the item is derived by the value you put in it, the reward has no objective value like money. So you value your accomplishment and the rewards that come with it the effort another player put be it less or more for the same reward should not detract from the persevered value of your own reward, unless you let it.

Just because a causal can earn the item through a different means does not detract from what you personally went through to get said item, unless the sole reason you took part in the activity was for notoriety tied to said item then yes it would detract from the value of your accomplishment. It simply does not make sense to me why nothing can ever belittle the fact you were able to get top 100, and most certainly seeing causal pvpers with the same reward you earned in seasons past does not detract from the fact you made it to top 100 and earned the reward when it was relevant. I say it a lot because it does not make sense to me because it seems like your satisfaction is derived around how few people were able to reach the goalline, so help me understand your position.

To me it seems like you base the value of your accomplishments around how few people were able to reach the goal line instead of valuing the fact you were able to accomplish your goal which in this case was reaching top 100, you proved you were able to best many other competitors, and showed that you were clearly one of the best. Nothing can ever change that, so please help me understand how seeing a causal player with your reward makes your top 100 any less of a feat to your personally.

Originally Posted by Aviars

The community wants low effort avenues to gain access to rewards that were exclusive to top 100 players. Basically everything should be accessible for no effort, you have made this quite clear for a while now.

Your effort will always remain, you made it your goal to hit top 100 for the rewards you put in the work to reach said goal that effort is not going away, unless you are telling me that the fact you were able to best other players and place top 100 becomes meaningless because a random player was able to earn the same reward as you through a different means? Once again how does that make your feat of getting top 100 any less impressive. To other players in the future yes the reward will look less impressive since random players will generally assume that you got the reward through the grind instead of earning it. May I ask why does matter though since you will always know the truth, and those active within the community at the time of you obtaining said reward will also know the truth.

Originally Posted by Aviars

Snip . . .

Mass influx of money has a proven negative impact on the economy, so that is why RMT or giving everyone one million dollars on a whim is objectively bad. I do not have the data so I cannot say for certain if your reward for PvP if it were handed to every player simply for logging in could have a negative impact to the mode itself. Though that has very little to do with the fact that the reward was given out more so that people took part in the activity simply for the reward and not the activity itself. Which comes down to a issue that SE should figure out, you know make the mode interesting and engaging so they do not have to bait people int playing said mode.

You still have not answered me as to why making an item obtainable through alternate inherently detracts effort and skill you displayed to earn said reward. It is not like we are talking about something that already has an objective value like money or any form of currency. You mentioned by would I team up for coil if I can buy the weapon. simple because I want to experience the content, I would like to take part in said activity. I do understand that progression is am important part of an RPG, but no one is asking for the removal of progression if a game provided an easier way to obtain an item that comes down to player choice if they will walk down that path let the player choose how they progress.

I think the reason we see this differently is due mindset. Way I see if someone finds something fun and enjoyable they will take part and do what needs to be done for as long as they find it enjoyable. If they do not they find short cuts, but those players take take the short cut have not lessen my enjoyment in what I am doing. More or less you keep asking if something can be obtained easily why bother working for it, in the sense of a video game. One real reason because they enjoy it. Rewards are nice, but I do not understand doing something simply for the reward. My issue is when you tie value of something to the effort that went into you I feel things get murky. Effort to a degree subjective, for some getting top 100 may have been easy, for others doing 1000 matches to farm some currency for an item might be extremely hard. Effort is funny like that, you personally feel effort amounts to more then the person that farmed 1000 matches but is it really? Who is to say since the value you place on your effort is based off what you personally value you it as.

Hope that sort of makes sense, lol English and I do not get along if you have not noticed.

**Aviars** · 03-13-2018 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Awha

You still have your million though so why does it bother you so much? You still have your own satisfaction, that is what I do not understand. Why is your satisfaction for your accomplishment based around how few people were able to receive the goal. In the context of money I can see how giving everyone one million dollars would detract from the value, but for an item in a video game? I do not see it.

Just because a causal can earn the item through a different means does not detract from what you personally went through to get said item, unless the sole reason you took part in the activity was for notoriety tied to said item then yes it would detract from the value of your accomplishment. It simply does not make sense to me why nothing can ever belittle the fact you were able to get top 100, and most certainly seeing causal pvpers with the same reward you earned in seasons past does not detract from the fact you made it to top 100 and earned the reward when it was relevant. Help me understand your position.

You are really just repeating yourself. Do you actually have something else to say?

I will restate it one last time because, as stands you really don't provide any new argument for me to debate you with.

Why should players that don't provide the same effort/skill/hard work receive the same reward? Why should people get something other people had to work hard for? If an item is made widely available for nothing where is the incentive to actually do it the hard way? You don't seem to understand that a rpg such as FFXIV is about doing tasks that improve your character along the way in some form. If you literally make everything for free you literally just destroyed any sense of progression and in a way you just destroyed the game. Why team up for Ultimate Coil if you could just buy the achievement and weapon with gil? Why do anything if everything is mindlessly provided to you?

A good example is if everyone is just given 1 million dollars for free, whenever they want, where is the incentive to actually work?

I personally wouldn't be surprised if you supported the following:

Why should you be upset if someone used RMT to buy 100million gil while you worked hard for your 100million through crafting or other means? You still worked hard for your 100 million it doesn't matter! Meanwhile the games economy collapse because you somehow don't care people are using RMT.

There isn't much more to say, you may not like to admit it, but there is only value in rewards, money or whatever based on how hard it is to get it. You don't seem to appreciate that at all.

**Lilseph** · 03-13-2018 07:24 AM

Why do people think that the alternatives are always easier and mindless? Use the current PvP system, place the old Feast rewards in a store. Make it so you can only buy them with collars. Be able to buy the collars with Wolf Marks (say 20k each), then you have to grind the hell out of PvP to get them. The store should have all the previous season's rewards but not the trophies, they should remain exclusive. Give the top 100 a title, like SCOB savage back in the day and a shit ton of collars. There, you have your bragging rights.

**HyoMinPark** · 03-13-2018 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Aviars

You said PVE doesn't have exclusives like PVP does. You are in fact, complaining/whining about it. It isn't twisting your words, you just don't want to admit it.

Or I am just stating a fact? Much like I did with the developers probably removing the level/item level sync for Ultimates introduced in Stormblood once 5.0 hits, since that has been the precendent set for every piece of content they ever released—all ARR content had level sync removed when HW came out; all HW content had its sync removed when SB came out; all SB content will more than likely have its sync removed once 5.0 comes out, and that will probably include Ultimate since that’s just the way developers do things. Personally, they could leave it synced forever. I don’t really care either way.

What you are doing is very much twisting words to suit your own rhetoric—just like you did with my mentioning them possibly removing the sync from Ultimate meaning that I want it removed so that I can steamroll through it for the rewards. I have no need to steamroll since I’m more than capable of clearing it as it currently stands, and I’m definitely not doing it for the rewards since the weapons are not that appealing and I much prefer my current title I use, even if “The Legend” is nice. But that’s all irrelevant to the conversation.

You say you never said people weren't whining, and in the same breathe say people I am debating with aren't whining. No words. You are really grasping here. Just give it up.

I said that I never said people weren’t whining, but that your remarks don’t point out “whining” so much as they are just condescending personal attacks. You’re debating with myself, Istaru, and Awha right now, and none of us are “whining” over wanting your shiny puppies or Hojo-chair.

Here you go

I’m guessing the quote you provided here is supposed to be some “proof” that I am contradicting myself? It’s not, but nice try.

TIL nobody I was talking to was complaining about how SE was giving PVP Exclusives lol. But you actually know this isn't true.

Discussing and complaining are two separate things. I’ll use my very first post to you as an example: I was just entering the discussion after pointing out a strawman in your argument about Legacy items (i.e., I consider them different since they’re from an entirely different game, so to use them as an example of exclusivity is a strawman and irrelevant to discussing FFXIV 2.0 exclusives). I gave some thoughts/opinions about the PvP mounts, and how I just disagreed with the idea of exclusivity in general when it comes to things—because they just serve as vanity items for people to use as bragging rights, but at the end of the day, they’re virtual pixels, and owning them doesn’t make you more special than the next guy (this is my opinion on them).

I also mentioned something about the consistency between PvP and PvE, and asked why couldn’t it just be the same; but it’s just asking a question. Said thoughts and opinions aren’t really complaints from my end, since I don’t care about the Feast or its mounts. Why would I complain about something I don’t care about? Maybe I am just trying to discuss something civilly on a discussion forum?

Alas, that is hard to do with your attitude from the very first response you had to me. After that, I’ll admit it wasn’t so much debating PvP as much as it was me getting fed up with your apparent need to attack my character because I dared bring up the idea that maybe your shiny Hellhounds be brought back much later on via achievements for people that would like a shot at them.

Originally Posted by Awha

I am just wondering if you could point how this inherttly detracts from your value of your reward / accomplishment.

Awha keeps asking you this question (i.e., “repeating himself” as you like to say) because you refuse to provide a straightforward answer without resorting to more snark and needless comments (example: your “I wouldn’t be surprised if you supported the following” remark). And he brings up a good point when he says that the only one who can devalue an item is the owner. If other people/more people having something detracts from its value to you (using the general “you” here, mind you), maybe it wasn’t that valuable to you in the first place as a mark/measure of your accomplishments, but only as something to hold over others so that you could brag.

People try to have reasonable discussions with you, but you won’t allow for that with the way you speak to them.

Originally Posted by Aviars

There isn't much more to say, you may not like to admit it, but there is only value in rewards, money or whatever based on how hard it is to get it. You don't seem to appreciate that at all.

That is your opinion. That is not a fact.

The reward for graduating college is a diploma. College can be challenging, yes, but it can also be very easy.
The reward you get for working is money. Work can be tiring, yes, but it can also be very simple.

The value in an item is not only determined by how hard it is to get. Maybe that is how you determine value, but your definitions of value do not apply to everyone else. Some of the most valuable things I own I put zero effort into receiving; actually, most are gifts given to me by people I love. Those are more valuable to me than my college degree (not to say it isn’t valuable, mind you, but that I find more value in the other things compared to it).

What you are defining is materialistic value.

**Aviars** · 03-13-2018 07:50 AM