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  1. #21
    Player
    Chrono_Rising's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    922
    Character
    Gulvioir Muruc
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Launched View Post
    Sure, Holmgang is just Living Dead without the debuff if you ignore all the other things that make it unique. Holmgang lasts 4s less than Living Dead which is a pretty big difference. There are mechanics that PLD/DRK can completely ignore with their skills that WAR can't Two examples are Holy Scourge -> Chastening Heat in A12S, and the 2 times in O8S where God Kefka will do Ultimate Embrace -> Hyperdrive. Then there's the target requirement, where DRK/PLD can take things like O6S tornados by themselves. WAR might be able to take the first one, but the second is on the opposite side of the arena from the boss. The root is sometimes good and sometimes bad, and it means you usually have to choose between using it to survive a tankbuster or ignore a mechanic. The root also makes it the worst for dungeons.
    Yes, there are things HG cannot do. For the most part HG is far superior due to the fact that is is up way more frequently, meaning that on 90% of tank busters it works as stated on the label, and that is to take a huge hit without requiring anything else. But keep in mind we are also ignoring advantages of HG as well. Namely if you take a hit and the boss goes into a cast healers can let you sit with a regen and fairy heals without worrying about you, not so much with living dead.

    The short cooldown on HG is really what makes the skill powerful. Both LD and HG a 1 second of immunity per 30 seconds of cooldown, both had an activation criterion (be close to target/tank must die), and both have a disadvantage (HG makes it so you cannot move/LD makes it so you must be healed fully) and an advantage (HG has frequency: use it and abuse it/LD those extra four seconds mean something: time is on your side) and both leave the tank in an easy to identify vulnerable state (1 HP).

    The real imbalance in my mind (and you touched on it in your post) comes from the fact that (like much of the rest of warrior's kit) you can turn your disadvantage into an advantage, if you don't want to move HG's disadvantage becomes an advantage. For Dark Knight there is no such world (coming to my mind at the time of writing) in which I can turn walking dead's healing requirement into an advantage, if someone doesn't know how my immunity works I die. There is no choice in the dark knight ultimate ability, yet it pays the same cooldown cost.
    (8)
    Last edited by Chrono_Rising; 03-08-2018 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #22
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,866
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Launched View Post
    Living Dead does need extra negative effects to be balanced. The extra 4s duration means it can be used on things that Holmgang can't, and it's less restrictive than Holmgang's root/target requirement. The healing requirement also justifies the 2m shorter cooldown than Hallowed. Remove that and it pretty much just becomes Hallowed on a shorter cooldown, because healing someone from 1hp to a decent amount just isn't difficult with skills like Benediction/Tetra/Essential Dignity/Earthly Star/Excogitation/Lustrate.
    But that's also true of Warrior's having an immunity CD with the same frequency as DRK's 30% mitigation skill. LD may be superior for newly cheesing mechanics due to its duration, but the improved frequency opens up at least as many options for Holmgang.

    The negative to such a change to Living Dead is in the removal, itself, of Walking Dead. No more lenient period before the "real" duration starts -- you get 10 seconds flat.
    (2)

  3. #23
    Player MagiusNecros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    3,205
    Character
    Bastilaa Shan
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Add a visual timer above the DRK itself for all to see. Preferabily a Skull with the number counting down in it's open mouth. Problem solved. No one is confused unless you bad.

    Other then that LD is raid skill and should be used in coordination with Tank and Healer so good communication is recommended.
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player
    AngelyLowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    191
    Character
    Angely Moonlight
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    If a Walking Dead pops, I always used TBN and Convalescence to help heal me up.

    Normally, don't have much problems with this situations.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    WHM's just laugh and press Benediction.

    Problem solved.
    (0)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  6. #26
    Player
    Nedkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,023
    Character
    Chloe Lehideux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    WHM's just laugh and press Benediction.

    Problem solved.
    Thats assuming a WHM know what the benediction skill is for. xD

    But that happens under lvl 70 and it really grind my gears the jump potion healers just spam cure 1 spell all the time and nothing else is being ever used. lol
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,866
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvain View Post
    No but he's right, to some extend DRK cd is much easier to use. You have 10sec before it procs and then you can't die for 10sec.
    This would justify the healing debuff OR the cd. The problem is that we have more downside than upside.

    Something else should be added such as "if you don't actually proc living dead CD reduced to 60sec" or something
    That would painfully OP, though. You'd have a "shield me and we'll see what happens" immunity once per minute until it wholly pays off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe777 View Post
    If the DRK used Living Dead and Walking Dead has taken effect and its taking tons of damage still then wait a bit for those damage ticks to settle down before healing OP. Healing during things like Ahk Morn for example is futile. Let Walking Dead soak it up, then heal the DRK.
    If there's not enough time after the damage settles to heal the DRK for its full health (and note that if the DRK does not take any damage after the healing commences, he will die regardless, because he'll have held onto 1 HP which therefore could not be healed), that's exactly what you have to do to avoid death by Walking Dead, though. Yes, it's wasteful, as the amount you're burning off the debuff, essentially, won't double into actual healing, but it's better than death.
    (1)

  8. #28
    Player
    Riko_Futatabi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    425
    Character
    Riko Futatabi
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 90
    Remember when Berserk used to pacify WAR? They removed that because it was a needless hindrance to the job.

    DEATH, the ultimate debuff is a needless hindrance to DRK.

    Death should not occur if the DRK does not reach 100% HP in time. Instead -if we really must have some punishment- then let all MP and TP get drained(Which technically simulates a death, since when you get raised you have little to no MP/TP). In addition, apply the "Brink of Death" debuff that you get when you die twice. Since technically the DRK dies when entering the "Walking Dead" and would die again if the healer failed to cure him to full with our current system for this ability.

    For example

    The DRK activates "Living Dead".
    He drops to 0 HP and "Walking Dead" activates.
    Ten seconds go by and the healer was unable to cure the DRK to full HP.
    The DRK retains the HP that the healer was able to heal to.
    But the DRK loses all MP, TP and the "Brink of Death" debuff is applied.

    Is this not enough of a punishment for failing to heal? If we must have a punishment that is.
    (2)
    Last edited by Riko_Futatabi; 03-09-2018 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Phileas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    229
    Character
    Dia Beetus
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Personally I feel Living Dead is the least of the issues DRK has xD.

    Its not a bad ability per se - it is basically a more mobile Holmgang with added healing requirement. I do understand that healers find it annoying...my raid healer used to find it annoying that bene had to basically be burned on it or else i'd die (if there was a particularly heal intensive moment of the battle)/

    I just wish that HP needed to get through walking dead status was lowered to like 50% of max HP or something like that.
    (2)

  10. #30
    Player
    Nedkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    2,023
    Character
    Chloe Lehideux
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 74
    Quote Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
    Personally I feel Living Dead is the least of the issues DRK has xD.

    Its not a bad ability per se - it is basically a more mobile Holmgang with added healing requirement. I do understand that healers find it annoying...my raid healer used to find it annoying that bene had to basically be burned on it or else i'd die (if there was a particularly heal intensive moment of the battle)/

    I just wish that HP needed to get through walking dead status was lowered to like 50% of max HP or something like that.
    I also find it hideous that DRK have to get to 100% hp, why on the earth would anyone design it that way?
    There are thousands of effects that deals some dmg, if you get to 100% in the last second and the -1 damage will pop you are death, thats ridiculous.
    (2)

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