Throwing the tome: 4.2 Summoner Feedback

[Karshan]

He does use the word “worthless”. I stand my ground: he is discussing value, not valueS

Without any offense intended (you used a smiley so maybe you were nice), the concept of reading also covers understanding a message, not just deciphering letters.

What he says:
• DoTs have become so deemphasized since Stormblood they might as well not even exist. With the loss of Contagion, nothing in your boss kit interacts with any of your debuffs.

Here he develops what he means in his first sentence: they don’t exist in regard of your kit. I’d correct with almost don’t interact, but still.
He doesn’t give a crap they do 20% of the damage because
1 – he knows
2 – it’s not what he tackles.

So people stopping at the first sentence are those I’m talking to. As I acknowledged in my post a bit harshly but the number of comments not understanding his point was getting annoying.
Plus looking at the logs I think OP knows SMN a bit better than some calling him out “you silly I laughed at Dots you know they do 1/5 of the damage”. Just my 2 cents: he knows what they do damage wise, and even probably uses them better.

• With the change of Fester to always give Dreadwyrm Aether, they don't even matter to your basic gameplay rotation anymore.

And indeed, the fact fester deals no damage if dotless, or the facts Dots contribute a lot to damage, has nothing to do with gameplay (value), only DPS (valueS)

• You could literally drop DoTs and go through your entire Trance and Bahamut rotation, unimpeded. It is nothing but invisible damage now.

And I have to say : invisible does not mean non existent. Dots are 33 pps, fester 15 pps, just put the 48 pps back on other skills. Now has your rotation changed (except not applying them) ? No ? Then they are irrelevant gameplay wise. Only relevant damage wise.

• Even if you removed the debuffs from Tri-Disaster, it wouldn't affect how you cast the ogcd. You'd still use it in the same place in your rotation, every time. That's how utterly meaningless the DoTs have become.

To further illustrate what he meant by non-impactful gameplay wise.

So he actually kinda goes in detail about what he means by worthless. He means worthless of value, not worthless on valueS

[Neela]

Honestly I keep both Garuda and Ifrit on Sic because I must being viewing their buffs differently. They are there to buff the party, not myself.

this is sadly soooo "new age smn"... meant sb-mentality, meant frustrating to read. while the raise of sicfrit is unquestionably – wth should one use Ruda on sic as well? I personally always cry if con is not ready on TA or Bahamut-Burst itself... not to mention how annoying Rudas Pushback in dngs (or bossmobs) is... Schs micro-managing on the otherhand is way more relaxing than controlling egis, what exactly is even "worse" with fairys in your opinion?

Or are you just not used to micromanaging at all? : o

As someone whos played SMN since 2.0.....LEAVE IT ALONE

No its not perfect, no class truly is.

I suffered through the class from its worst days till now. While tweaks would be nice, when you nail your timing on SMN it feels like a dream. It does not need the complete overhaul you seem to think it does. (Though I would prefer them unnerfing the AOE's they just nerfed) The only thing that does, are the pets, which really have been an issue since 2.0. But they wont change them now. They clearly don't see an issue with them, even with Bahamut that freaks when you moves. I main SMN as DPS and love the class.

word & welcome to the club :3

personal I would rather get m2 back than the old aoe-pot values but thats just a minor subjective preference - else im all the way with your statement <3

[Nemekh]

Sicruda actually has better timings for Contagion cycles than trying to perform it on obey with manual input. All you have to do is sync up when the first Contagion is meant to land and watch as every subsequent Contagion happens within 60-62 seconds.

It's not a case of not being able to micro. Garuda's pet AI combined with Wind Blade having a cast time is a huge enough ??? factor and a pain to deal with. Imagine having to mash contagion over 30 times only for it to finally perform the action 10+ seconds later than when you wished for it.

Now for the pet swap opener I have a trick that makes the initial contagion seamless enough to avoid pet AI delays while also baiting out a proc. But for mono Garuda use, you can still perform the same trick and just sic during the wind blade before your desired raid buff window. Then it's just a case of being mindful with further applications and the current raid fight in question.

[Neela]

sic buffs just line up if you play a perfect timed and known fight - ruda on sic in progress or dngs is just lazy and there is no argument for a theoretical sic-cycle however. I personally have no big problems with contagion "clunkiness" - sometimes I have to press it twice well but cmn 30 times? you are overdrama the technical issues here. If people realize that pet skills aren't chainable and are delayed by animations/movement - you can simply get used to when and how petskills work probably.

[Nemekh]

In dungeons it is lazy, I don't disagree there. In prog however it's still perfectly viable just to minimise Contagion drift and keep things more consistent.

Try playing from Germany on a DC that's not Chaos and tell me there's no problems in trying to resolve actions with much higher latency. It's not an overdramatisation when it's reality for players on DCs they are not local to.

[Neela]

now why should I play on a different data center at all? but I get what u are up to... just saying that many smns didn't even know why they handle things the way they do. Giving newbies advices to ditch eirenes core bible "cause its outdated" or saying "set ruda to sic for better numbers" without any background is just producing more lemmings on this cls... there are enough smn out there who use sicfrit in magic comps cause they actually are damn lazy or just didn't know how to handle ruda cause they never learned pet basics at all. -> so I know wtj on powerful cls' most probably don't mind design/mechanics and all that stuff at all as long they provide big numbers... and move on to the next "overpowered" cls next tier. But job guides shouldn't primary be done for those kind of gamer but for those who are really interesting in the cls cause of lore/playstyle and not because the cls got a "good" tier this time...

[Nemekh]

now why should I play on a different data center at all?

So you can see the problems real players experience beyond your own microcosm with low ping to Frankfurt.

but I get what u are up to... just saying that many smns didn't even know why they handle things the way they do. Giving newbies advices to ditch eirenes core bible "cause its outdated" or saying "set ruda to sic for better numbers" without any background is just producing more lemmings on this cls... snip

I don't think you get me at all. Else you'd know what I've done when it comes to theorycrafting for the game and for SMNs. You'd know the extents of efforts I go through for the betterment of the game and its players especially raising awareness and understanding regarding more correct plays for the job. But carry on casting assumptions by all means.

[Sunako]

I am usually swapping between sic and obey. I am using manually skills only if I want save contagion or radiant shield for the next phase after downtime. I think it is pretty smooth that way.

[Nemekh]

I am usually swapping between sic and obey. I am using manually skills only if I want save contagion or radiant shield for the next phase after downtime. I think it is pretty smooth that way.

That's definitely one of the better compromises and the one generally recommended. Blind sic use will just waste Radiant Shield during boss transitions/jumps while also missing more valuable reflect windows, sometimes for Contagion it'll pop the next use right before a boss jumps wasting it entirely.

There is also a subtle dps loss cost to sic which isn't entirely obvious, where the AI routine for it results in lost Wind Blades and Burning Strikes. Which is why ultimately Obey is "best" for pet damage. But for raid alignment with Garuda's Contagion, Obey desync is a real problem. It's also a consideration few will need to worry about unless they are running multiple casters.

[Neela]

I don't think you get me at all. Else you'd know what I've done when it comes to theorycrafting for the game and for SMNs. You'd know the extents of efforts I go through for the betterment of the game and its players especially raising awareness and understanding regarding more correct plays for the job. But carry on casting assumptions by all means.

well that was mostly linked to the DC point.

I never questioned you as a theorycrafter how should I? I didn't even know you so no way im doing that. I just can judge your advices in this topic and for that I would do it differently if I would call me a "cls mentor" myself – thats all. its not that I said you are completely wrong tho... just that newbies need more basic informations than highend recommendations they can learn but never understand in its core. see whats it all about?