New DRK Overhaul Idea

[Lyth]

Living dead doesn't need to necessarily be touched, but then Vengeance and Holmgang definitely need to be nerfed. Holmgang's movement restricting "downside" often ends up being an advantage and it has double the uses on Hallowed, and let's face it, if Vengeance is better in every way, then it should be on a longer recast than Shadow Wall.

[gohomermouth]

Living dead should only recieve a visual effect, big enough for healers to notice it and heal the drk on time.

Also for other skills, I think that dark arts really should be reworked into something less spam and more utility kind of buff. Using DA before every skill is just so boring :V Since we don't have much utility or dps, we should first decide the direction in which drk needs to go (be excellent utility or dps job). This would then help us to think on the skills rework!

[Launched]

Living dead doesn't need to necessarily be touched, but then Vengeance and Holmgang definitely need to be nerfed. Holmgang's movement restricting "downside" often ends up being an advantage and it has double the uses on Hallowed, and let's face it, if Vengeance is better in every way, then it should be on a longer recast than Shadow Wall.

No, they don't need to be nerfed. Holmgang being both an invuln cooldown and WAR's Tempered Will isn't some huge advantage because you're forced to choose between them, plus not being able to move is always a bad thing. Requiring a target also sucks because it means there are mechanics that WAR can never invuln, and there are also mechanics that take >6s to deal with.

Vengeance should be better than Shadow Wall, because WAR doesn't have a skill like Sheltron/TBN/IB available in dps stance. When PLD uses Sentinel it's also going to use Sheltron for 56% mitigation, when DRK uses Shadow Wall it's also going to use TBN for 30% mitigation plus a 12k+ shield. If WAR wants more than 30% mitigation it needs to use another 90s+ cooldown, but Sheltron/TBN give DRK and PLD free mitigation on every tankbuster on top of their proper cooldowns.

[Shurrikhan]

Compact Spitball Suggestion Set:

Dark Dance (replacing Dark Mind) - 12 duration. Causes 30% of damage to instead be taken over time. (Splits 20% of incoming damage over global ticks over the remaining duration. Any overhealing received reduces the would-be DoT value stored. These ticks themselves can be mitigated by existing mitigation effects, essentially double-dipping on the mitigation.) Dark Arts Effect: Attack Power and Evasion increased by 1% of damage mitigated or delayed during Dark Dance. [Now stacks incredibly well with Living Dead.]

Living Dead - Now simply prevents death for 10 seconds. Would-be fatal damage instead becomes a debuff which absorbs an equal amount of healing. (No, Benediction will not heal this portion in addition to 100% of Max HP, and no it cannot be cleansed.)

Shadowskin - Returned. Reduces Magic Damage taken by 15% and Dodge and Parry chance by 15%.

The Blackest Night - Now shields others for 12% of the DRK's HP. (50k -> 6k)

Sole Survivor - Your and your allies' attacks drain HP from the target.

[SkyEdge1]

That's not bad either, the changes to Dark Dance and Shadowskin still give DRK a much needed +1 to defensive skills, as for living dead, I'm still kinda torn on why DRK invul skill seems to have to co me with a negative payout, I get the whole living on the edge of sacrifice motif but in terms of practical gameplay it's always seems like a handicap given just because it fits the overlying theme.

[Sylvain]

I like Dark Arts to be a Dark Arts.

I just want it to be closer to HW frequency, rather than being available every second to third GCD.

Well see, this is a legitimate request. I prefer the new version but I totally understand why people would prefer the last one. I do agree that we spam it a bit too much for very little effect tho.

On the other hand, I don't understand why so many people want scourge back. I just can't understand how this skill was interesting and brought anything to the job. (if your concern is purely dps, bumping up a few potency on your main combo would do the trick)

Having a dot for the sack of it is totally uninteresting. A bit like that post about SMN dots having no purpose because they don't interact. They are just there.

Lastly, remodeling skill purely around dps optimisation a dangerous route leading to unnecessary homogenisation. The proposed change to DA was made with Berserk and Requisath in mind. DA is the one truly unique thing about DRK and you propose to make it like another dps cd.

The problem I see is also the way the proposed DA was formulated. A good DRK would be able to keep it longer and do more dmg.
I do not say that optimizing dps is bad far from that. But I'd like to point that the one thing you want to address on a tank is "dps optimisation"
In other words, DRK tanking ability, design and effectiveness aren't your concern. Your concern is how DRK can optimise its dps and you would destroy the one unique thing about it to make it more like a dps rather than what it should be in the first place, a Tank.

Your proposed idea for instance destroy the improved on demand regen/aggro from our main combo, or the interaction it has with defensive or offensive skills.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Living death could give unlimited blood gauge like inner release does to warrior. :P

Tank Mitigation and tank dps OGCD's should not be sharing the same button, as all that you create is a meta where the defensive aspects of the skill are massively or completely ignored due to how much of a dps loss it is to NOT use it for offense. It's a similar issue to Unchained VS Inner Release that was plaguing WAR before 4.2; why would you ever use unchained when Inner Release is just infinitely more important in comparison? Or how much WAR avoids IB unless it's absolutely necessary due to Fell cleave being so much stronger?

Even on DRK itself; look at how TBN interacts with Bloodspiller, and how if it's not at least dps neutral, you'll have optimal DRK dps play never using it outside of emergency situations.

Though beyond that, I would have an issue tying DRK's ultimate dps ability to having to die. That's just begging to cause drama and wipes due to mis-use and/or arguments with DRK's telling healers to stop healing them during their burst window, when the other two tanks can use their ultimate dps C/Ds with no repercussion. There are better ways to make a dps C/D more interesting than having massive drawback to it.

On the other hand, I don't understand why so many people want scourge back. I just can't understand how this skill was interesting and brought anything to the job. (if your concern is purely dps, bumping up a few potency on your main combo would do the trick)

I can't speak for anyone other than myself; but it's simply because DRK feels way too straightforward. WAR and PLD at least have some nuance to their combo chains, DRK is just "RAWR Dark Arts!" with soul eater spam over and over. I personally wouldn't want Scourge back as a 1-button DoT; I'd want it to come back in a new iteration similar to goring Blade, where it's a combo ender off of siphon strike to have more fun managing combos and timers than DRK does now, with adjusted potency to it and Soul Eater due to its addition so DRK stays roughly the same on dps.

[SkyEdge1]

[/QUOTE]
The problem I see is also the way the proposed DA was formulated. A good DRK would be able to keep it longer and do more dmg.[/QUOTE]

My main problem with Dark Arts as a whole is that its quite simply a button to press to gain a boost in numbers mainly as a DPS increase. My problem with DRK as a whole is that it has to do SO much more to achieve similar results that both PLD and WAR are able to do with relative ease. This doesn't make the class unique in my opinion, simply cumbersome. The proposed change is simply to allow Dark Arts to provide a more regulated curve for the current DRK's kit. Example if you were out of Grit and needed to maintain aggro Power Slash would retain its aggro boost during your DA window, however you would presumably lose out on an SS -> SE combo and would lose 3GCD's worth of the MP drain that I proposed for DA. So you are effectively choosing whether or not the regen from SS - SE is worth the balance to aggro from PS. It takes the complexity out of Dark Arts use, yes this was intentional, instead I moved the complexity unto DA management. It gives you a flexible window one that can be maintained for a much longer period of time and one that rewards fight knowledge, proper planning for CD, and overall player skill. Its not a timed window like FoF or IR its a stance that is lost if a player is bad. Similar to how Darkside was during Heavensward. I do however understand that it is very DPS focused change. However unless I'm horribly mistaken (serious I'm not a DRK expert) Dark Arts is done mainly as a damage increasing modifier. The Sustain from DA -AD and the Aggro boost from DA-PS seem to be the only non-damage uses for Dark Arts. The proposed change won't really affect that since it still wouldn't allow you to mindlessly spam skills as they still use a hefty chunk of MP.

[Mycow8me]

On the topic of WAR and not having a TBN...

Thrill of battle is basically a TBN for tank busters. Choosing to align thrill of battle with upheaval is your choice as a warrior instead of using it for a tankbuster and in some cases it may align anyway. Ironically the same decisions drks make to use TBN for a tank buster or to use that mp for dark arts. You guys get a free tank stance every 90 seconds for 20 seconds. If you know a tank buster is coming, theres nothing stopping you from switching to defiance for extra HP and an IB with unchained for 20 seconds.

Edit: Let's not forget equilibrium is there for when you switch to defiance for instant access to extra HP.

[TouchandFeel]

I can't speak for anyone other than myself; but it's simply because DRK feels way too straightforward. WAR and PLD at least have some nuance to their combo chains, DRK is just "RAWR Dark Arts!" with soul eater spam over and over. I personally wouldn't want Scourge back as a 1-button DoT; I'd want it to come back in a new iteration similar to goring Blade, where it's a combo ender off of siphon strike to have more fun managing combos and timers than DRK does now, with adjusted potency to it and Soul Eater due to its addition so DRK stays roughly the same on dps.

This touches on my biggest issue with the current version of DRK. Outside of the Abyssal Drain -> TBN -> Quitetus combo for large pack trash tanking, there seems to be a distinct lack of "flow" to DRK and it's abilities which I would say is mainly brought about by a lack of synergy and interaction between it's abilities. They are just too isolated in what they do or only really seem to be limited to one basic interaction that tends to be the same or barely different from the interaction of most of the other abilities. This just results in very bland game-play that just feels shallow and fragmented.