Eureka: What we know and what we want to know

[Squintina]

Now its my turn to say "Stop Projecting" What both of the people you quoted said specifically, even within the quote themselves, was they didnt like the FATE's. They said nothing about FATE mechanics or Hunts or other content. YOU were the one to extend FATE's to those areas then base your argument on that.

Erm.

What?

Me bringing comparisons from other content in the game is not at all the same thing as projecting. Projecting would be like if I said "well I find fates fun".

Just like that person taking my statement about my inability to understand why people hated fates (and not the content inside of them), and the person replied my own statement said that they were boring (when I did not say that), and that is the only one I accused of projecting because he was.

I did sort of answer you above, maybe I need to elaborate more.

What I'm hoping from Eureka that I wouldnt get from FATE's is more strategy and effort on the part of players. It would be the difference between Odin popping in the shroud, Special weather changes, checking your map for blue circle, everyone gathers, stand in place, smack till dead. The last three are pretty much par for the course in this game, very little thought needs to go into battle content outside of Savage while its relevant.

Now what I'm hoping from Eureka in the Odin example would be Odin pops, Special weather changes, all interested players in the zone now search for where he popped up, eventually someone finds him, shouts location, players check the map, shout they are coming/party invites/etc, gather at location, initiate fight, fight has actual boss mechanics that need dodging/stunning/(hopefully fewer telegraphed moves)/etc, Tank needs to have Thunder affinity, DPS need to have Earth affinity, (both are hot swappable depending on spec), Death penalty will add sense of danger to dying, Smack till dead.

That's just the ones that spawn on a timer, there could be some that are item spawned. Player gets item from X source, shouts "I got the X item! Anyone wanting to join meet me at the alter of Storms?", players communicate to arrange the fight, then same as above.

I totally understand that eventually players will have a forum dedicated to spawn times/conditions/etc and some of that initial mystery and excitement will dissipate, again i'm fine with that. Yoshi-P has already said that this content will grow with the patches so I can only hope new monsters and triggers will be introduced throughout the life of the content. The rewards are pretty simple but the time its supposed to take will draw that out, not like Diadem where you are just fighting the RNGesus. Eureka will have tangible progress and goals to work towards.

The thing is a lot of this is still speculation until we can actually do the content, these are just some of my hopes for it. Playing Diadem was sorta fun but really it was party spawn, fly directly to first goal, kill, fly to next goal, kill, fly to next goal, kill, end content, gain meager reward and hope its what you wanted. Above and beyond the killing monsters Eureka will have its own level system and elemental system not used elsewhere in the game. Like a game within a game, gameception.

Hope this makes at least a little sense? I know its not drastically different than FATE's as they exist in the open world but it doesnt need to reinvent the wheel to give it a fresh feel, at least for a time. My worry for the content is it will be like every other piece of content they release, fun for a week, after that "OMG really? Skalla again? Kill me now..." With how many times its been pushed back, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Yes this is very clear.
I do think this could maybe be done within the confines of the fate system, depending on how much flexibility they might have for deciding spawning, but at least now I understand exactly why you do not want them.

[MageBlack]

Erm.

What?

Me bringing comparisons from other content in the game is not at all the same thing as projecting. Projecting would be like if I said "well I find fates fun".

Just like that person taking my statement about my inability to understand why people hated fates (and not the content inside of them), and the person replied my own statement said that they were boring (when I did not say that), and that is the only one I accused of projecting because he was.

Ok, maybe "projecting" was the wrong word. My apologies.

Any comment on my more detailed explanation or are you just here to argue semantics?

[Squintina]

Ok, maybe "projecting" was the wrong word. My apologies.

Any comment on my more detailed explanation or are you just here to argue semantics?

I added it in as an edit.
I like your explanation and I finally understand a little bit about some actual fate-system related reasons why people may not like fates, and therefore why they may not want them in Eureka. Thank you.

[MageBlack]

I added it in as an edit.
I like your explanation and I finally understand a little bit about some actual fate-system related reasons why people may not like fates, and therefore why they may not want them in Eureka. Thank you.

Groovy! Didnt see your edit until after I commented.

Its the "hey! Look at me over here! I'm a FATE and this is what I am, what I do, how long is left, thank you for joining me!" that people dont like. If anything i'm surprised there isnt more push back on the fact Yoshi-P said that the Claim system will be the same as FATE's. I'm glad its that way cause I remember trying to camp an NM in XI next to three other people, missing the first hit after hours/days of waiting, then sitting there fuming because now I'm getting nothing out of this and I'm powerless as I watch someone else kill the guy and get the reward I was after too. But some people really like the claim system that locked others out.

[Alleo]

My reason for disliking fates is the huge amount of content that is put behind them. Be it stuff like events (Yokai and normals ones), relic weapons and more. If you are playing this game for a long time this will just get boring fast, especially since fates are mostly just zerg content. The monsters are mostly not interesting without any real mechanics. So you stand there for hours killing the same thing again and again without any real threat to you. Thats why I like fates like Odin, Behemoth, coerl queen and more. They at least have mechanics and people need to pay attention to them.

You know the game rift is full with rifts, that are kinda like fates. But damn are the nightmare rifts nice. These special rifts are kinda unending and get more and more difficult the more rounds you beat with people. You have random boss spawns that have different attacks and you have rounds where you need to do other things than fighting. Yes even those rifts might get boring after time but honestly they were already more fun the first time I did them than Fates. The highest I had till now were 400 rounds in one rift, where we ran out of time to beat them fast enough and they kinda killed us a lot too. Still if all of this was the content it would get boring too which is imo the problem with fates. They are used a lot and even new content like Diadem where kinda like fates..while the only interesting parts where the bigger monsters that could kill lots of people but sadly they did not happen that often.

[Felis]

I did sort of answer you above, maybe I need to elaborate more.

What I'm hoping from Eureka that I wouldnt get from FATE's is more strategy and effort on the part of players. It would be the difference between Odin popping in the shroud, Special weather changes, checking your map for blue circle, everyone gathers, stand in place, smack till dead. The last three are pretty much par for the course in this game, very little thought needs to go into battle content outside of Savage while its relevant.

I don't know how it is now, but during 2.0 no blue circle on the map marked the Odin spawn place. People needed to find him first or had to wait until someone wrote his position in the chat.

I think what people don't like about FATE (and Hunt) is that everyone can join the battle. Maybe if they put in a max limit, where only the first 24 players can join.

[Remedi]

My reason for disliking fates is the huge amount of content that is put behind them.

No offense but It's time to drop this act, only 1 part minor part of the 2 relic quests are locked behind fates with one even skippable if you have a zeta, as for the fates only the yokai one required a huge amount of fate the others it's about 2-3 and you're done.
Now if you compare it to everything else this game has to offer and I don't really see this huge amount of content locked behind them especially when to level up a character there are better and more efficent ways to do it.

I do agree that FATEs could be more interesting but I'd like for ppl to drop this senseless stance since rarely something has been hardgated behind those

[Maero]

No fates at all involved would be nice for a change..
Much content has involved fates (past Relics, Seasonal Events, etc...)
The issue is what could they add instead? I do not know the answer to that, just would be cool for something new rather then the same old

@ Remedi, Alleo is correct though. I for one have done every single variation of Relic and stupid fates.. ugh
Plus the fact that most Seasonal events had fates tied to them, that be one of the reasons players are fed up with fates

[Addicted]

No I didn't. Read it again and stop projecting.

I never said you found them boring, I simply used your sentence to justify why I did. Of course it's projecting, I shouldn't have to use "In my opinion" before every sentence. But you obviously just wanted to get outraged, congratulations I guess.

You should stop being reductionist. "Kill shit" is a meaningless expression. The way you "kill shit", the criteria and consequences for failing or succeeding, all the surrounding elements of the fight, there are a many ways to make it more interesting than the sorry excuse for GW2 dynamic events we have right now. I'm just spitballing but off the top of my head:

The biggest issue (in my opinion!) is the monotony of the entire system. While the easiness of every FATE objective can't be ignored, there are other things they could implement to keep the encounter relatively fresh by adding random elements. Consequences for failing objectives is one thing. This way you wouldn't constantly see the same things happening on rotation and there would be a sense of urgency to completing them. With Eureka and the weather system they could make it so the more objectives failed, the more aggressive the weather and monsters become. Likewise, succeeding would open a new branch of quests, something we already have in certain areas. They could even do a mix and have many alternate branches depending on what fails and what succeeds.

The FATEs themselves could have different ways to be completed and not just the one. Clear a certain condition and the FATE gets upgraded into a "Savage" FATE, something that would only happen if the group clearing it wished so.

There could be objectives that aren't wholly dependent on killing something. We already have that with the collection FATEs, you can just ignore mobs and pick up what's on the ground to complete them. Maybe objectives where the goal is survival via proper mob management and crowd control. Or a FATE like the Redbelly Hive one turned up to 11 where you need to assault a fortress and complete various different objectives along the way. Again, all you're doing is killing stuff but the context and objectives are much more than just standing in a blue circle doing your rotation.

Maybe something like unnerfed Steps of Faith. A giant monster decides to attack the main outpost and you need to drive it away by manning different machinery along its route. Make it not always take the same path. Make the player actually struggle to keep up, having to use his mount to keep up. Or maybe another giant monster you need to defeat by doing various objectives centered around it. Get on your flying mount and land on its back, dealing heavy damage there. Enter one of the Astralagos mechs and focus attacks on the legs to slow it down. Fly inside its mouth ala Cerberus in WoD and deal heavy damage from inside.

Perhaps take a page from Mythic in WoW and have the weather in Eureka affect combat effects. If weather is X, enemies explode upon death dealing heavy damage, making AoE kills a very bad idea. If weather is Y enemies do more damage the lower the HP of the target they're attacking, making quick healing a necessity.

Increasing the difficulty is of course something I'd like to see. I'm not asking for savage level difficulty but you can't get more than a lukewarm experience when you design objectives to be completed by the most uncoordinated of groups.

That's what I came up with in a couple of minutes. Easier said than done obviously and I'm sure there are balance issues with what I suggested but I hope a team of paid professionals would be able to work those things out.

[Remedi]

@ Remedi, Alleo is correct though. I for one have done every single variation of Relic and stupid fates.. ugh
Plus the fact that most Seasonal events had fates tied to them, that be one of the reasons players are fed up with fates

I've done relics too and fates are as said 1 step of the whole questchain HARDLY they are THE only grindy part of the questchain they are only 1 small portion which on the anima one can be completely skipped if you have some spare zodiacs and about the fates in the seasonal events, they are about 5 mins of your time one day and you are done if anything ppl are fed up because of the northen thanalan fate train.

Anf frankly I repeat there is not many content that is really hardgated by fates so maybe it's the time to drop this act

To specify: Fates are usually bland I agree, Fates are overly used in most of the content however I strongly disagree