This whole Meta Party thing is hurting me. x_x

[Remedi]

I don't really think that LL footage can or should be considered an evidence of this, since the footage is mostly for show, can you pinpoint me towards some interwiews were they discuss about this?

[HaroldSaxon]

I don't really think that LL footage can or should be considered an evidence of this, since the footage is mostly for show, can you pinpoint me towards some interwiews were they discuss about this?

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

He does say that they turn it off to test at the end, however that is for fight balance rather than class balance, and there are some fights that they haven't tested in a true completely toolless state - he also hints that the dev team have "sort of cleared"

As another example of where they get their testing wrong, when Ninja was released and then nerfed shortly afterwards, Yoshi-P remarked that the community worked out a much better rotation than they expected.

[Remedi]

Ty, will read it

[Eli85]

Snip.

The development team today clearly—and definitively—stated that there are no major advantages or disadvantages to any setup. In short—this 'meta' is a player made concept, and to the individuals who have access to all the information and data, it is a silly construct.

Now as for the specifics. Yes, whoever parses the most DPS is the optimal DPS. There is a law of averages; if a few parses had a raid feeding the BLM to do the most possible damage, it would be balanced out by a myriad of logs from countless comps. There is more than enough data on FF Logs to squash the outliers. So if you cannot agree that the highest parsing DPS is the best / optimal DPS, then it just shows you do not understand how DPS works.

And to bring it all back to the tidbit I listed: the developers definitively said there are no major advantages or disadvantages to any comp. Meta or not, buffs or debuffs or not, the devs do not think that there are any meaningful benefits, and thus you can take the numbers as they are. That should be /thread. Unless you want to say the creators of the game do not know what they're talking about, which is rather silly.

Although it is nice to have a discussion, instead of another poster who just wants to scream WRONG at everything.

[Kabooa]

And to bring it all back to the tidbit I listed: the developers definitively said there are no major advantages or disadvantages to any comp. Meta or not, buffs or debuffs or not, the devs do not think that there are any meaningful benefits, and thus you can take the numbers as they are. That should be /thread. Unless you want to say the creators of the game do not know what they're talking about, which is rather silly..

Except it's objectively wrong, so, you know.

Keep on trucking.

[Eli85]

Except it's objectively wrong, so, you know.

Keep on trucking.

The development team—who has access to more numbers and data than anyone else—is wrong? Do you realize how asinine that sounds?

People can make mistakes, but when the devs look at their mountain of data and say "there are no major advantages or disadvantages," there is no feasible, logical counter to it. Namely, because any argument you can make lacks the data that the devs have at their disposal.

If there is honestly any argument on devs objective data analysis, then this thread has gone truly south.

The meta is a fiction, confirmed by the development team. It's time to drop it, completely.

[Kabooa]

People can make mistakes.

Developers are people too.

If developers didn't make mistakes, there'd be no reason to have Q/A or playtesting.

What they have is a difference of opinion. They believe there is no major disadvantage or advantage to compositions, but that is objectively false.

[Eli85]

Developers are people too.

If developers didn't make mistakes, there'd be no reason to have Q/A or playtesting.

What they have is a difference of opinion. They believe there is no major disadvantage or advantage to compositions, but that is objectively false.

I did acknowledge that people can make mistakes. It is not, however, a matter of opinion to look at hard lined, mathematical data and say 'there is no major advantage of disadvantage to compositions.' That is an objective statement anchored in mathematical data subsets.

As a community, we cannot argue against that statement. All of our data, relative to the developers, is incomplete.

What the developers said is objectively true, not false.

[Kabooa]

I did acknowledge that people can make mistakes. It is not, however, a matter of opinion to look at hard lined, mathematical data and say 'there is no major advantage of disadvantage to compositions.' That is an objective statement anchored in mathematical data subsets.

As a community, we cannot argue against that statement. All of our data, relative to the developers, is incomplete.

That is an assumption, and subjective by nature. You cannot make this claim with certainty and thus the argument is, while somewhat valid, not indisputable in the least.

[Karshan]

Saying there is no difference would be false. Saying there is no MAJOR difference is what they said. It's kinda the players that have a tendancy to exagerate further than reasonable any discrepancy.

Yes meta comp is more effective. Also, to do reasonable comparison there should be tests made by the speedrunners. For exemple, on O5S best time is 36 500 rDPS, it would be interesting to see if the same guys with non meta jobs reach 35k or only 32-33.

https://fr.fflogs.com/reports/yaKGnV...pe=damage-done
What would these guys do with MNK, BLM, BRD and SAM ?

That's the data I would need to evaluate if it is Major or Minor and make my mind about devs' or players' point of view.