Revelations from Patch 4.2

[Theodric]

Zenos is attractive and has a sexy voice - that's enough for many people, sadly. I dislike him simply because he is a walking contradiction - he doesn't benefit Garlemald in any way and even denounces it entirely yet is written to be tied to it directly so that the protagonists never have to deal with the deeper shades of grey that exist. Imagine if Zenos' forces hadn't been unhinged psychopaths? If some Garleans living in Gyr Abania and Yanxia had befriended some of the 'savages' living there and vice versa? That could have made things more difficult. How do you figure out which Garleans can be trusted and which can't? How do you handle Garleans that are loyal to their homeland and people but do not want to betray them and are essentially non combatants...who also do not want to be displaced from the provinces they have come to live in? That'd make for some tough decisions for the protagonists and make them question what sort of 'liberation' they want to achieve.

[CaesarCV]

Sorry to be a bit more off topic than the base topic of discussion here (I'll probably make a proper revelations post afterwards since I've been missing from the forum for a while). But I think we need to give Zenos a bit more credit than simply being a 'lame anime villain'. The interesting parts of Zenos have to deal with the almost meta aspects of his character. Namely how they recognize a sort of 'gaming mindset' of simply seeking greater and greater challenges. The fact that your character can, thanks to a lot of the new dialogue options, basically agree with his views is part of his appeal. While he's a villain through and through, he takes an interesting sociopath angle where he can really only understand the world in one way. That's why in the end, he calls the player character his only friend, since he believes they are the only ones equally separate from humanity. Whether he's right or not is ultimately up to the player however. And I looked through his statements a while back, and he never exactly denounced Garlemald. Indeed, he seems to agree with their quest for strength, but finds their justifications for it lacking and hypocritical. I understand the idea that it would have been nicer to have some more grey in the conflict, and there was a little between Baut and a few other factors.

[lycropath]

Zenos being an unapologetic uncomplicated brute is fine, we've had a lot of colourful antagonists with complex motivations so its not bad to have one out of a dozen or so major villains who revels on being pitch black on the morality scale.

[Ametrine]

Baut.

I don't think anyone assumes all of the Garleans are psychopaths; It's just that the psychpathic actions of a few go unpunished.

And Zenos is royalty. That heavily complicates things.

[Lauront]

I don't think the Emperor ultimately took issue with his brutality as such, since he was given control over remote, difficult, recalcitrant provinces, both of which were in the process of or had in recent memory rebelled, and both of which evoked eikon in the process. What's more ambiguous is whether he knew about all the other aspects of Zenos's rule whilst it was all under way - not after the fact, e.g. through Elidibus or other agents. At the end of it, he calls Zenos a monster, presumably because he merged (?) with an eikon, I guess. So it's a question of what would he be punishing the more psychopathic agents for? If the aim was maintaining stability, and that's what he saw mostly coming out of them, then so much the better from his perspective. There's no doubt a lot of psychopaths in both sides, who are kept due to their efficiency, until they overstep their bounds too overtly. Personally, seeing as Varis killed his father, I doubt he'd have any issue killing his son if the need called for it, so being royalty alone is probably not a huge obstacle to removing him if needed. Resistance from troops, politicians, nobles etc. (perhaps the sum of these comprising the Optimates if, as I suspect, they are real) who have personal loyalty to Zenos might be, though.

Sorry to be a bit more off topic than the base topic of discussion here (I'll probably make a proper revelations post afterwards since I've been missing from the forum for a while). But I think we need to give Zenos a bit more credit than simply being a 'lame anime villain'. The interesting parts of Zenos have to deal with the almost meta aspects of his character. Namely how they recognize a sort of 'gaming mindset' of simply seeking greater and greater challenges. The fact that your character can, thanks to a lot of the new dialogue options, basically agree with his views is part of his appeal. While he's a villain through and through, he takes an interesting sociopath angle where he can really only understand the world in one way. That's why in the end, he calls the player character his only friend, since he believes they are the only ones equally separate from humanity. Whether he's right or not is ultimately up to the player however. And I looked through his statements a while back, and he never exactly denounced Garlemald. Indeed, he seems to agree with their quest for strength, but finds their justifications for it lacking and hypocritical. I understand the idea that it would have been nicer to have some more grey in the conflict, and there was a little between Baut and a few other factors.

They're not justifications to mask some ulterior motive, though. They are in actual fact the Emperor's motives, and Zenos is quite clear in disagreeing with them, because he seems to be animated by some "higher purpose", namely this hunt of his. I think you're right insofar as he doesn't renounce the Empire, but he certainly thinks its anti-eikon crusade is a waste of time and misguided.

[CaesarCV]

They're only sort of the Emperor's motives, and even then they were probably only Solus's. They began their quest to conquer the continent long before they were even aware of Eikons. Even then, they seem to hate Eikons less out of principle and more because they were the first thing that could match them in massed combat. Solus was reportedly horrified the first time his troops encountered one in battle, and saw how their magitek had finally met its match. This did however, galvanize the Empire and give them a reason for invading and conquering other nations other than simple conquest. That being said, many of their actions are meant more to serve the goal of war than anything else. They have a more or less fascistic government, including the idea that they need an 'other' to fight, and a reason to fight them. The 'savages who summon eikons' is a convenient reason for them to continue their battles. I'd get my quotes, but I'm currently away from my lorebook.

[ko_]

Zenos

If thats what they were going for I missed it completely. for many reasons, one being that I couldn't take him seriously when right over his head I see "70". I can kindof see it but only cause the only thing of note he did was take other's weapons. But what is that 'posed to say? Yeah we both take loot but other than that what is that posed to say about him? Loot is bad? I kid. I just wished he actually did something on screen instead of us being told how bad he was. Like how badass would it had been if we SEEN him take down shinryu? That happens off screen. Or if he actually killed us. Leading us into the lifestream - solo dungeon- where we have to fight our way out. Making him a true threat and the ONLY person to have killed us. That would leave a much better impact then just being a boss fight we can't win. Like Mega man X did that better - mainly cause we don't see his HP bar so it's leading us the player into a true sense of fear- Yes it'll only work once.. but it only needs to work once. I also understand I'm coming at this purely from a gameplay standard and not an RP one so my bad, so this might be all my own doing for expecting something more then whats here.

[Astrid_Stormborn]

Like how badass would it had been if we SEEN him take down shinryu? That happens off screen.

I think that the field Shinryu's trapped in is from Omega when they Double KO'd each other, all the Garleans had to do was pick up the package and transport it. I think we hear Zenos getting the news over linkpearl while he's in Doma, but I'll check when I'm not in work.

[Cilia]

For the record, I don't like Zenos, but neither do I hate him. I pity him more than anything, because he too is a victim of the Imperial system. This mostly stems from the view that Zenos represents how far the Warrior of Light could fall if they gave in to battle lust, and recognizing that is a two way street; if Zenos represents how far the Warrior of Light could fall, the Warrior of Light represents how high Zenos could have risen in a better environment. Instead he was born into a culture that glorifies violence and killing for personal gain and glory, which mixed with his nature to produce, as Krile aptly puts it, a monster. I can't help but find that a little sad in context.

... but I know when compassion and mercy must end, and Zenos crossed that line long ago. Even if you want to chalk it all up to his nature, that still doesn't account for how he became the leader of a major military unit despite being a textbook sociopath. Garlemald, and the Imperial system, bears no small responsibility for what Zenos was... as does his father, one should think.

Ultimately, to me Zenos comes across as closer to Kefka than Vayne in terms of characterization, just replacing "destruction" with "battle," and while Kefka is still an awful person through and through his final scene in Dissidia evoked some small measure of pity from me. Just like Kefka can't find joy in anything but destruction (specifically senseless destruction), Zenos is happy only when engaging in violence (specifically challenging violence). Whether it was due to an experiment gone wrong, a bad upbringing, or because it was just in their natures... I dunno, but it's still sad. Just a little.

Still don't like Zenos. Just making that clear.

[Kusanagi7]

i admit im curious where or whats become of zenos's mother is there any information about her anywhere?