Glamour dresser red flag

[kikix12]

Technical back-end stuff most likely. The armoire stores stuff "cheaply" by not storing spirit bond, dye, or glamoured appearance information- just the base item. Only a very limited selection of items are allowed in it so the amount of space it takes up is less than that of a traditional inventory. The Dresser stores the item, but since it's meant to store A LOT they need to keep the cost of hosting that data under control somehow. I'm 99% sure that's why we can't remove without destroying - otherwise, they'd have to push it off again or spend more than they're allowed to for this. It's not an excuse in the slightest since I think SE can do better than this half-assed system built on compromises and desperation but they don't have infinite time or money, so here we are. I'd be curious in hearing the exact reason why but they probably wanted to point to a simple item with as little information associated with it as possible, which may very well mean stripping out metadata that makes the item retrievable.

Except, if the dresser actually stores anything then it's already inefficient...

Armoire works most likely through "link". As in, there is a database from gear stored on the servers. That's what says what the gear in its base looks like, what stats it have, what drops it and all the other technical stuff. Now, the bad way of doing inventory is to copy all (most) of that data for every copy of that item that any player owns. This IS probably how normal inventories work, for whatever reason. Hence why there is a big-ass resource hog to the inventories. This is most likely NOT how armoire works, hence why it can technically have virtually unlimited space, because every item is just a few bytes or so for every character...which on an MMO's scale is nothing. When you take something out of the armoire, it merely references the item database for a specific item. For example, it would look something like "Put item no. 12611 in players inventory.". That's all.

Now, with the dresser, I bet they went the stupid way of doing it a separate inventory again. That means that the server copies the entire data (or at least large chunks of it) for every item you store on it, for every character separately. THAT is why they may not be retrievable (if it's not an error in the patch notes). There is zero reason why removing any metadata (other than items number in a database) would make an item non-retrievable, because all of that data MUST exist and be referenced every time you use that item in any way. Put the gear on?! The game needs to know what stat modification to give your characters, how your character will look, what icon to put in the character screen etc. Even someone just using an examination on you will bring up the tooltip which again will need all that data. Heck, you showing up on any characters screen when passing through makes requires the data to load, since it's tied to appearance.


In reality, data-management is a lot less problematic than some seem to think. It's supposed to work off of a database and cross-references. That means that every item should have exactly ONE copy of data on the entire data center (or a physical server at most), and every character and their mother would only reference that one copy of data. The drawback?! If they wouldn't do backups, any error in the database would affect everyone as well and could be unrepairable. The positives?! Everything else. Immense amounts of data storage being saved, among others, and that means removal of technical issues born from data mismanagement, which in turn would allow to make simple, efficient systems. And yes, adding a dyes metadata is just a little bit of data more, and still could be done extremely easily even with database reference. That's how inventory could very well work as well.

[Fawkes]

Except, if the dresser actually stores anything then it's already inefficient...

Armoire works most likely through "link". As in, there is a database from gear stored on the servers. That's what says what the gear in its base looks like, what stats it have, what drops it and all the other technical stuff. Now, the bad way of doing inventory is to copy all (most) of that data for every copy of that item that any player owns. This IS probably how normal inventories work, for whatever reason. Hence why there is a big-ass resource hog to the inventories. This is most likely NOT how armoire works, hence why it can technically have virtually unlimited space, because every item is just a few bytes or so for every character...which on an MMO's scale is nothing. When you take something out of the armoire, it merely references the item database for a specific item. For example, it would look something like "Put item no. 12611 in players inventory.". That's all.

That's probably how the armoire should work, but I doubt it actually works that way. If it had technically unlimited space they wouldn't be so stingy about letting us put more items in it. They are only just now adding reward items from the 2014 Fan Fest to the armoire. And there would be no good reason to continue to exclude glamour items purchased on the mog station from being stored. If it weren't an extremely limited space then SE are complete jerks or totally incompetent for keeping items like that out.

[Snat]

That's probably how the armoire should work, but I doubt it actually works that way. If it had technically unlimited space they wouldn't be so stingy about letting us put more items in it. They are only just now adding reward items from the 2014 Fan Fest to the armoire. And there would be no good reason to continue to exclude glamour items purchased on the mog station from being stored. If it weren't an extremely limited space then SE are complete jerks or totally incompetent for keeping items like that out.

From a programmer PoV that is pretty much how it is done at least if you are doing it effectively and even the new glamour storage should work the same way. It would not surprise me at this point that they simply do not add new stuff to the armoire so people pay for more retainers. I still can not think of a single reason why the AF2 & AF3 gear can't even go in there.

[Nezerius]

I still can not think of a single reason why the AF2 & AF3 gear can't even go in there.

Because both of those sets are easily re-obtainable. AF2 through Centurio seals, and AF3 from the Calamity Salvager, at 1k gil per piece. Especially the AF3 set, since 1k gil is pretty much nothing, nowadays.

[Snat]

Because both of those sets are easily re-obtainable. AF2 through Centurio seals, and AF3 from the Calamity Salvager, at 1k gil per piece. Especially the AF3 set, since 1k gil is pretty much nothing, nowadays.

Ya, but its still weird. The original AF gear can go in there and you can buy that as well. I just don't get why the iconic gearsets for the job won't go into the armoire - more so if the new vanity system can use them as well.

[Skivvy]

Ya, but its still weird. The original AF gear can go in there and you can buy that as well. I just don't get why the iconic gearsets for the job won't go into the armoire - more so if the new vanity system can use them as well.

This has always bothered me. The armoire should allow all the AF versions, as well as any mogstation purchases as well.

[kikix12]

That's probably how the armoire should work, but I doubt it actually works that way. If it had technically unlimited space they wouldn't be so stingy about letting us put more items in it.

They're not stingy. They are either ignorant, do it for the sake of pushing for retainer purchases as Snat said, or are just doing it this way to make the impression there are technical limitations in case something bigger came up and they needed a good excuse.

How to reference database is taught in the first few classes for programming ANYTHING in ANY language. It is the most basic of basic ways to program anything. I cannot imagine the incompetence one would need to show to NOT be able to imagine that solution. Why?! Because it helps literally everything. Money, time, nerves. It reduces the risk of bugs and simplifies the process of updates. In cases like MMO's it even makes the program less susceptible to unauthorized use, even if ever so slightly, because trying to change an items effect for example (to give oneself better stats) would instantly affect everyone else on the server. As far as noticing a group of players having higher stats is difficult, noticing the entire server running around in stuff that is grossly overpowered is easy as a pie.

At this point, I am going to say that the developers do NOT want to solve the issue, rather, that they create it on purpose...or at least misinform players about there being an actual issue in the first place. Majority of the playerbase will just take them at face value without questioning it, and even those, like me, that will not believe them when they say they couldn't do it like this or like that due to some limitations, will probably still continue paying the subscription simply because in general the game is still fun overall.

[Fawkes]

In cases like MMO's it even makes the program less susceptible to unauthorized use, even if ever so slightly, because trying to change an items effect for example (to give oneself better stats) would instantly affect everyone else on the server.

Well, when we were upgrading our anima weapons they were all the same item with different stats. Aetherial gear has different stats too.

And items converted into glamours in the glamour dresser appear to have most of their item data stripped from the tooltip.



There's no reason to not just show the normal tooltip unless either item data actually matters or they are trying to trick us into thinking it does.

And if they're just trying to trick us to make us rent more retainers, why give us more inventory at all? Why not have items stored in retainer inventories work with the glamour dresser? Why not make us buy the chocobo backpack instead of giving it away?

[Dustytome]

Why not make us buy the chocobo backpack instead of giving it away?

I have no doubt marketing has the ad print for premium/additional packs ready for the mogstation after people get used to using it.

[Callinon]

In reality, data-management is a lot less problematic than some seem to think. It's supposed to work off of a database and cross-references. That means that every item should have exactly ONE copy of data on the entire data center (or a physical server at most), and every character and their mother would only reference that one copy of data. The drawback?! If they wouldn't do backups, any error in the database would affect everyone as well and could be unrepairable. The positives?! Everything else. Immense amounts of data storage being saved, among others, and that means removal of technical issues born from data mismanagement, which in turn would allow to make simple, efficient systems. And yes, adding a dyes metadata is just a little bit of data more, and still could be done extremely easily even with database reference. That's how inventory could very well work as well.

Absolutely agreed. The more I see SE doing things like this the more and more I despair for the future because it reveals enormous flaws in their design.

You only store data on a character's item if it's different from the prototype item. In the case of the glamour dresser it'd be the item's ID number and the ID number of the dye used on it when it was put in the dresser. That's it. There's no reason to store anything else because the rest of it is just the prototype item. The entire item entry in a character's data set should be.. what? Like 8 bytes max?