This is all DRKs get?

[Asturyas]

DRK can shoot 4000k at parser what do you want more as tank seriously . Same that the sam who can get 6k/6k2 ........

[Chrono_Rising]

DRK can shoot 4000k at parser what do you want more as tank seriously . Same that the sam who can get 6k/6k2 ........

Maybe at the least be between Warrior and Paladin in a meaningful way in raids since we offer less group utility than paladin?

[Tint]

DRK can shoot 4000k at parser what do you want more as tank seriously

i want defense, selfheal, utility and enmity, a class wich is fun to play and a rework of all those useless skills DRK has (Dark Passenger, Blood Price, Sole Survivor, Unleash / Abyssal Drain wich is unnecessary to have both) and a fix for the clunkiness wich the back and forth shifting of mana and blood is for aoe survivability.

a real class identity would be nice too...

DRK is a mess since 4.0, dps numbers are the last i care for.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

Unleash / Abyssal Drain wich is unnecessary to have both)

Uhh, what? You aren't seriously comparing these two, are you? Using Abyssal Drain to gain hate is not nearly as effective as Unleash, and Abyssal has a self heal when Dark Arts'd. The only problem with Unleash is that its niche is small not that it needs to be remove. They need to give it another effect or to be adjusted to be worth using more than *at the start of a trash pull.*

Everytime there is DRK running a duty without grit, there is one Dolphin being killed on earth by the human hands.

Use grit, stop dolphin murder.

Knowing when it is safe to not use tank stance is the difference between a good and mediocre tank. Your mindset is flawed.

[Nedkel]

Knowing when it is safe to not use tank stance is the difference between a good and mediocre tank. Your mindset is flawed.

For the most part you need to be in grit stance, since it gives you enmity that holds aggro and makes healers job easier.
There are bosses that you could turn it off, but you have to keep that in mind, if you will turn it off, it has its consequences if the boss or trial is heavy hitting, healer cannot sustain a wet noodle tank and himself if he and other party memeber will be hit with unavoidable or not AOE. I cannot imagine tanking susano without tank stance for instance, since its throwing out so many aoe's its really hard for healer to keep healing you all the time, you could end up dying even if you manage your cd perfectly.

Keep it in mind, switching off tanks stance does not affect only you, but the healers also even on the boss fights, you will be called for a wipe if someone will notice you are not on tank stance.

[Aniya_Estlihn]

-snip-.

I've been tanking since 3.1, so I don't need to be lectured about my main role from someone who has made countless sweepingly inaccurate comments about it throughout several threads over the past few days.

Everything you've mentioned, as well as learning when it is safe to drop stance, are a part of learning how to tank effectively. AoEs going out? Use reprisal, if you're PLD or WAR you can use Divine Veil or SiO. Healers can't keep up with healing? Pop a CD and Convalescence together. Taking too much damage? Guess I should use a CD.

Every statement you've made reeks of an unfamiliarity with the role as a whole, which is absolutely fine, we all had to learn but you can't make statements like that as if they are fact.

You do not need to be in stance all the time, in most high end content you'd be foolish to remain in it. Dungeons are relatively safe as well because you have defensive cooldowns, which contrary to popular belief, are not panic buttons. If you're using your cooldowns effectively, there is little reason to be sitting in tank stance all the time. Be that in a dungeon, trial, extreme trial or savage—it isn't needed if you know what you're doing.

Keep it in mind, switching off tanks stance does not affect only you, but the healers also even on the boss fights, you will be called for a wipe if someone will notice you are not on tank stance.

Sure, if you're bad and show no semblance of knowing what to do. However, more oft than not people don't care about tank stance so long as you are doing damage and keeping hate. It's such a non-issue if you're even slightly proficient at your job, one that many fresh tanks think is this massive cardinal sin, when really... it doesn't matter. If you died with tank stance off then there's more going on there than just having it off, as no boss hits hard enough with their autos to kill you in the span of a second; save for busters, with cooldowns up and if your healer is that bad you'd have already known earlier in the dungeon that it may not be safe to drop stance in the first place.

[Hruodig]

For the most part you need to be in grit stance, since it gives you enmity that holds aggro and makes healers job easier.
There are bosses that you could turn it off, but you have to keep that in mind, if you will turn it off, it has its consequences if the boss or trial is heavy hitting, healer cannot sustain a wet noodle tank and himself if he and other party memeber will be hit with unavoidable or not AOE. I cannot imagine tanking susano without tank stance for instance, since its throwing out so many aoe's its really hard for healer to keep healing you all the time, you could end up dying even if you manage your cd perfectly.

Keep it in mind, switching off tanks stance does not affect only you, but the healers also even on the boss fights, you will be called for a wipe if someone will notice you are not on tank stance.

You have no clue how tanking at a high level works. Not only is tanking without tank stance expected, but it's perfectly do-able.

[Awful]

Snip

Here's the thing you don't need tank stance for EX trials or Savage shocking I know, as long as your co tank is Shirking and you're doing the same you'll never lose threat ever, nothing in this game is gonna one shot you unless you didn't pop a CD. Hell Susano is a bad example as we've out geared it quite heavily as well and even in current content I was tanking it out of tank stance and I played exclusively only Drk even at the beginning of the pull I was out of tank stance using TBN to eat those cleaves it's not hard you just have to understand your class.

Healers not being able to heal you as effectively is just a cop out honestly there is no wet noodle tank because TBs in most high end content aren't the issues it's the random auto attacks and crits that'll end you faster than anything. Healers are absurdly powerful in this game and they have so many tools that it's quite frankly insane what they can do whether it comes to their utility, DPS, they're just ontop because they have the most control over a group when it comes to encounters because you need them.

I dunno when you started tanking but you can do anything without a tank stance you just need to actively use your toolkit as tanks are far from squish as long as you don't eat a TB with nothing or pull a gigantic pack in a dungeon without tank stance and pop 0 CDs then you're fine, when I do pulls I solidify threat and drop stance and AoE them down as a Drk while rotating my CDs it's just a matter of skill.

I know people have responded to you just giving you my view on it as a discussion bottom line is tanks are in full control of how much damage they take and don't need the cushion of a tank stance, healers are the backbone of a group and can do so much that people really don't give them enough credit.

[MagiusNecros]

i want defense, selfheal, utility and enmity, a class wich is fun to play and a rework of all those useless skills DRK has (Dark Passenger, Blood Price, Sole Survivor, Unleash / Abyssal Drain wich is unnecessary to have both) and a fix for the clunkiness wich the back and forth shifting of mana and blood is for aoe survivability.

a real class identity would be nice too...

DRK is a mess since 4.0, dps numbers are the last i care for.

An identity would be nice yes. Been asking for one since Heavensward and really lost it's sense of self at 4.0 launch after getting gutted. At 70 you can do "okay" but play a DRK in ARR content synced down and tell me how much "fun" it is.

You have no clue how tanking at a high level works. Not only is tanking without tank stance expected, but it's perfectly do-able.

Ergo a DPS that can hold hate and take a hit. That's what passes for Tanking in this game. It's pitiful. Healer will top you off anyway.

[Hruodig]

Ergo a DPS that can hold hate and take a hit. That's what passes for Tanking in this game. It's pitiful. Healer will top you off anyway.

That's not really related to my comment, but ok.