This is all DRKs get?

[Xan_Kriegor]

DRK can shoot 4000k at parser what do you want more as tank seriously . Same that the sam who can get 6k/6k2 ........

I hope you are not being serious.

Does this number has been pulled with grit turned off?
If the answer is yes, then i have a bad message for you.

Everytime there is DRK running a duty without grit, there is one Dolphin being killed on earth by the human hands.

Use grit, stop dolphin murder.

I think he is referring to raid fights in which after the learning period is done it is actually normal to tanks turn off the defensive stance during most of the fight without killing any Dolphins ^^

^ that is broken.
DRK is as fine as ever in action. I just downed o6s after 2h30m of blind prog in 340 gear with my DRK mt and I was tanking the floor a lot more than he was as PLD. TBN is actually brokenly powerful on Single Target, moreso than people seem to think. Tanks are p close in balance rn and MOST of the suggested changes people on these forums give would absolutely crush any type of balance or border on broken like a sole survivor vuln up.

I agree with you that adding vulnerability up to Sole Survivor the way it was mentioned would surely broken it. However I strongly disagree with you about the balancement state of tanks at the moment. Perhaps Paladin e Warrior are balanced after these last changes but Dark Knight is definetely behind them. There are a lot of maths, statistics and arguments to support this.

TBN is for sure a good spell and I guess nobody denies that. But it is not brokenly powerful as you said because it is not free. It is actually a very expensive skill to use since it costs almost 1/3 of your most important resource. Also, due to the lack of other mitigations, DRK seems to be more dependent of his on-demand skill than other tanks.

It is fairly understandable that players keep making improvement suggestions for skills such as Sole Survivor and Dark Passenger as these are among the worst-designed skills of the entire game, and some of them do not even put these skills in their action bars. No other tank job has skills so useless like these.

Yoshi has made it clear that it is not of his intention to make all jobs similars. Each job must have unique characteristics in its playstyle. To achieve a good state in balance each tank job should have pros and cons against the others in such way that in the end all jobs feel useful yet having some flaws at certain moments. Unfortunately, at the moment Dark Knight seems to have many flaws and very few pros.

[Silver_Blade]

A DRK must have kicked one of the devs out of their FC or lost his raid spot to one.
Everybody can clearly see DRK is grossly underpowered and taking one over a WAR or PLD is a straight up detriment to a group.
They can't just be oblivious to something so easy to see.
BLM and SAM are in the same boat. There is no way the devs can't see the problems that are so obvious.
SAM and BLM bring no utility and don't do enough DPS to make up for their lack of it.
Any other class even one that does less damage will still bring more dps overall as all classes except DRK SAM and BLM bring support and utility. These classes either have to be doing significantly more DPS or give them some utility because as it is they are a straight up dps / utility loss to bring.

[RLofOBFL]

^ that is broken.
DRK is as fine as ever in action. I just downed o6s after 2h30m of blind prog in 340 gear with my DRK mt and I was tanking the floor a lot more than he was as PLD. TBN is actually brokenly powerful on Single Target, moreso than people seem to think. Tanks are p close in balance rn and MOST of the suggested changes people on these forums give would absolutely crush any type of balance or border on broken like a sole survivor vuln up.

[Silver_Blade]

Because you cleared X changes nothing. It is simple fact that DRK has the lowest DPS the lowest mitigation no raid utility except a single target spell and the lowest sustainability.
Your results do not make your assertion true.

You can't argue facts the skills simply are not there for DRK.
All you clearing a fight with DRK shows is that your healers are good and your team made up the deficit for bringing you.
And the above change is literally just trick attack on a 2 minute cd without the 400 potency.
Every class in the game except 3 have a buff or some type of utility. Those three classes are the ones nobody wants. WHM doesn't have utility but they are the best at what they do, Raw healing. We either need utility or something to claim as our own.

[Joe777]

Because you cleared X changes nothing. It is simple fact that DRK has the lowest DPS the lowest mitigation no raid utility except a single target spell and the lowest sustainability.
Your results do not make your assertion true.

You can't argue facts the skills simply are not there for DRK.
All you clearing a fight with DRK shows is that your healers are good and your team made up the deficit for bringing you.
And the above change is literally just trick attack on a 2 minute cd without the 400 potency.
Every class in the game except 3 have a buff or some type of utility. Those three classes are the ones nobody wants. WHM doesn't have utility but they are the best at what they do, Raw healing. We either need utility or something to claim as our own.

Just because DRK's DPS is behind, even a bit, and doesn't offer anything unique doesn't mean it's so bad it's automatically carried. Believe it or not DRK can still contribute properly, and if you don't believe that then remember that a DRK was part of an Ultimate Bahamut clear. Yes that is a cliche defense but in this case an effective one as no doubt the entire group must contribute their all to clear it.

[Valdegarde]

Just because DRK's DPS is behind, even a bit, and doesn't offer anything unique doesn't mean it's so bad it's automatically carried. Believe it or not DRK can still contribute properly, and if you don't believe that then remember that a DRK was part of an Ultimate Bahamut clear. Yes that is a cliche defense but in this case an effective one as no doubt the entire group must contribute their all to clear it.

I want to emphasize this because it's 100% true, and yet this DOES NOT mean that it is not also 100% true that Dark Knight absolutely needs attention and benefit so that they, while not worthless, are not obviously inferior in every aspect with the contributions they provide.

[Joe777]

I want to emphasize this because it's 100% true, and yet this DOES NOT mean that it is not also 100% true that Dark Knight absolutely needs attention and benefit so that they, while not worthless, are not obviously inferior in every aspect with the contributions they provide.

Long as the gap isn't that wide SE probably won't give it any attention though, least that's how it has been so far. But hey, least we got a duration buff on TBN! Better than nothing right?

[Ekimmak]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

[Silver_Blade]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

Clemency kinda kills that idea. It restores 30-50% of a paladins HP and they can spam it. A paladin using riot blade and sheltron can do exactly what you describe. Super low dps but crazy survivability.
So does warrior having HP recovery on their combo finisher AND Inner beast and two instant hp recovery skills.
DRK's only single target hp recovery is weaker than both WAR's and PLD and TBN is on a 15 second CD. If you mean AoE then yeah we function pretty well in that but raid bosses don't frequently have 4-5 targets to make it effective.

[MagiusNecros]

I feel like the devs ignoring DRK means that they see something in it the community doesn't.

I'm beginning to suspect it's that they expect DRK to be the most survivable tank at the cost of the lowest damage (ie Using TBN on cooldown), but everyone swears off it because it's a (slight) dps loss.

Of course, that's just tin-hat talk.

As a FF fan from the FF1 days where DRK had high defense and bitching damage in the standard games it was present in I am in conflict against their design philosophy for DRK in XIV. For a game that metes out physical damage, magic damage, and a darkness damage type that ignores defense values and the DRK not being able to inflict Darkness damage at all is baffling to me.

Right now you use DRK for either dungeon runs(which right now it's more fun to go WAR) or use DRK for progression. All while being clunky and overwhelming with some skills not even being used at all or using skills requires a lot of work just to barely break even.

And most of DRK is really centered around TBN. And wants you to MT.