What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[miraidensetsu]

A healer can get through virtually all content using only the healing half of their toolkit where as every dps class needs to use nearly 100% of their abilities to be considered competent.

This is a false equivalence, you know. Alas, this isn't even a fair comparison.

Nearly 100% of the DPS toolkit are damaging skills or support skills for attacks. The DPS can use nearly 100% of its toolkit and do absolutely nothing outside its role. DPS don't have to tank and don't have to heal. Maybe drop a skill or 2 for the rDPS sake.

There are some raid utilities, true, but outside a heavy META content, actually using them - while welcome - is not something that the group is nazi for. At least, never saw a BLM being shamed for not using thunder spells, never saw a party kicking a RDM for skipping the sword phase (the coolest part of RDM's rotation IMO) or refusing to heal.

For what is being said here if the healer - for whatever reason - lacks off DPS, the party should instantly open vote kick against him and blacklist that damn noob.

[Taika]

At least, never saw a BLM being shamed for not using thunder spells, never saw a party kicking a RDM for skipping the sword phase (the coolest part of RDM's rotation IMO) or refusing to heal.

You don't think a tank refusing to do any DPS, a BLM refusing to use nothing but ice spells, or a BRD refusing to sing (or refusing to do anything but singing) would get comments about their "chosen playstyle" or even get removed from parties occasionally, just like healers who refuse to use anything but their healing spells no matter what situation? The main difference between the two, in my opinion, is that for those ice mages, Flash paladins and "I'm only here to sing" BRDs you don't see anyone actively defending that kind of playstyle choice on these forums... But for some strange reason some people think healers should get a free pass to play however they want, even though no one else gets (or should get, even in their opinion) the same choice.

For what is being said here if the healer - for whatever reason - lacks off DPS, the party should instantly open vote kick against him and blacklist that damn noob.

Please show the comments here, in this thread, which advocate instant kicks and blacklists for healers who don't DPS.

[MoroMurasaki]

If you can play a DPS or a tank, which involves pressing buttons pretty much all the time, you can do that as a healer too.

The main difference between the two, in my opinion, is that for those ice mages, Flash paladins and "I'm only here to sing" BRDs you don't see anyone actively defending that kind of playstyle choice on these forums...

What I have been saying for multiple posts now. Thank you.

No one defends other jobs ignoring significant portions of their kit, only healers get that special treatment. Thus if the pressure placed on a healer, apparently the delicate snowflake role we can't criticize, is too much for someone how are they going to hold up to the standards set for a dps in endgame?

I don't have time for the offended people that are putting words in my mouth.

[Vyriah]

Maybe because "for some reasons" you bring pages and pages and pages of reasons, but absolutly any excuse available (like, someone posting too say they tired of playing healer) is good to act as it didn't happen. Like, you know, you were absolutly obssessed with that absolute healing healer, wich wasn't even the conern to begin with. The discussion was just forcefully directed to that, something that happen litterally every two page of this thread.
But yeah, they are the "delicate snowflakes". Not that person who push its view aggressively by name calling, being a crowd against a single person and then saying that they are too exhausted too continue. But still continue either way.

BTW Silent, I didn't posted it because I though it was obvious but it seems it wasn't : it's okay. Just take a break.
Play that selfish SAM if you want, new content is coming, it's absurd to spoil the fun with something that has become a pain to play. It's not like there's any justification to play what you want. And even less to the people of this thread.

[MoroMurasaki]

same old same old

Look who's going for the messenger now.

Silent if any of my comments have come off as telling you to play a job you don't want to I sincerely apologize. It was not my intent. What I don't want to see is someone who already feels in over their head slide further under. I believe that DPS roles have it the hardest overall in endgame. This is not to say that one group migjt be particularly hard on it's tanks or healers but rather that the number one sin in Savage/EX is not contributing the best DPS you can while peforming mechanics. If as a healer you cant hit 2k but are sitting at 1.5 there are very few groups who would be opposed to taking you assuming you are still proficent with the healing side of your kit. There is no safety net as a dps. If you're 25% behind the expected DPS for your job people will expect you to shape up or ship out in general.

Vyriah... honestly? I haven't continued with you even though you keep posting things I believe are completely ignorant. If you wanted our argument to keep going I'm sorry to disappoint but the minute it became clear that you were too set in your ways to consider anything else you became not worth my time. I'm not going to change your mind and unless you come out with something than the same crap you've been slewing you aren't going to change mine. Just stop. It isn't going anywhere.

[Vyriah]

I'll actually consider not calling people using threda like that just to dismiss other players maybe when the moment it'll stop. It's not like I care if your precious healer DPS debate is ruined in the process.

[Miste]

I'll actually consider not calling people using threda like that just to dismiss other players maybe when the moment it'll stop. It's not like I care if your precious healer DPS debate is ruined in the process.

There is a difference between encouraging and discussing how the game is designed and forcing people to do something. Encouraging is not forcing. Discussing how the game is designed is not forcing. Discussing that healers should -try- to put in equal effort as their teammates is not forcing.

I don't know why you seem to think the people here are "forcing" people to do anything. No one has the power to force you or anyone else to do anything, but we do wish to encourage people to learn jobs in a way that is most beneficial to yourself and for your party since we all should be striving to do our best to help each other.

If you can do something to help your parties then why would you fight against it? Why fight against improvement when it helps you and helps others too?

We aren't talking about healers doing not enough DPS, we mean ones that do absolutely zero. If a healer at least casts a few instant cast DoTs here and there on bosses or on regular pulls then at least they are trying to stay active and trying to do whatever they are able to do to assist themselves and their group.

[miraidensetsu]

You don't think a tank refusing to do any DPS, a BLM refusing to use nothing but ice spells, or a BRD refusing to sing (or refusing to do anything but singing) would get comments about their "chosen playstyle" or even get removed from parties occasionally, just like healers who refuse to use anything but their healing spells no matter what situation?

Do you think that when they do that deserves all this demonization? Or just healers deserves this and ice mages, loldrgs, non-singing bards, etc can get away with it with (as it is today)?

Minimum effort players exists in all roles. Tanks, healers and DPS, likewise. But do you demand a Ice Mage to at least use fire spells as well? Do you demand provoker paladins to use their complete hate rotation? Do you demand your co-bard to play songs? Do you demand your RDM to use weaponskills as well? Do you demand your loldrg to be cautious about when he uses elusive jump? Or you're demanding just with healers? God saves me from healing at the same group as you.

Healing are the more situational role. That's because, while tanks and DPS must mainly deal with a highly-scripted AI, healers must deal directly with humans to fill his role. Why they don't DPS or stop DPS'ing completly? That question is what this topic was trying to answer before its goals changed to bash healers again (and again, and again, and again). And so far, most reasons were situational, where it IS justifiable for healers to not DPS, at least until the situation becames more manageable. The healer won't be granted that he will always have 10 free seconds without any noticeable incoming damage. That time happens, but it is more frequent if the party is good. But if the party is bad? That happens often, you know. And you - and every other defensor of healer DPS - are here generalizing as all healers that don't dps are because they're lazy, they're bad and they are always doing nothing on downtime. Like if every party was good, full of great players. But that healer.

And if everything is group effort, why only healer is being called into transposing its role and being compared with players that don't even do their role description right? The ice mage isn't doing damage. The provoker paladin isn't holding aggro and thus isn't defending anyone. But the non-dpsing healer IS healing. That's more like if a PLD will cast or not Clemency, if the BLM will include Addle into his rotation or not, if the RDM will use Vercure or Verraise when needed or something like that. Things that aren't that enforced on non-savage content. Sure, that is enforced on high end statics.

If you'd like to see more healer dps, there will have to be more group effort to let that happen. Or do you think that a provoker PLD or a low-dps dd don't affect the healer DPS uptime and they can ultimately drop it to near-zero? That's why I spoke about RECIPROCITY. You guys put your effort, I put mine. That's how it works. EVERYONE must put effort to kill the boss, not just the healer. And if the DPS is not being demanded for more effort when he isn't giving any, is it fair?

EDIT: Notice that I am not speaking that low-effort healers shouldn't be putting some effort. What I'm saying is "stop with that war against healers or let's demand maximum effort for everyone. Pick one".

[Jollyy5]

...

I do approach tanks and DPS who are obviously doing something wonky and try to direct them to the right direction, it's not just healers.

But as it has been mentioned already, bad tanking and DPS aren't defended the same way as bad healing is, the other problem is the fact that an idling healer is a more prominent problem than "Ice Mages" in that while these Ice Mages are doing a whole lot wrong, they are still doing something (little damage > no damage), while a healer who is either idling or healing a player who's health is already full is doing absolutely nothing, and it's plain to see.

[Sebazy]

Healing are the more situational role. That's because, while tanks and DPS must mainly deal with a highly-scripted AI, healers must deal directly with humans to fill his role.

I do agree with the core of your point and yes, a healer's overall performance is in many regards, restricted by the consistency of their group. Don't get me wrong, an Ice mage doesn't stop me DPSing, neither does a flash spamming PLD (It is entirely possible to hold rock solid agro on PLD whilst doing very negligible damage).

However, I will correct you a little on your point that I quoted above. First off, at the end of the day, incoming damage is still a part of that very same script. You can see the damage coming and you've usually got a good amount of time to prepare and adjust for it in casual content providing you are playing with your eyes open.

Secondly and perhaps more importantly, triage! If there's one thing my experience has taught me well, it's the art of recognising how much healing is needed and more importantly, where it's needed in any given situation. If you're blasting multiple Cure IIs at that 1k DPS Ice Mage then you are literally wasting your time for the most part.

I prefer to simply throw a regen at them and leave them to it, that's 21 seconds where I don't have to baby sit them in most dungeons and for the most part, that's plenty enough to keep them going. In situations where it isn't, that's because they've just got themselves one shot and nothing you could do was going to save them from that anyway. This holds true for a surprising amount of mainstream content and it's usually only those occasional moments where a boss is about to do an unavoidable AoE right after a painful mechanic.

TLDR: Don't take someone else's mistakes and make them your own.

EDIT: Notice that I am not speaking that low-effort healers shouldn't be putting some effort. What I'm saying is "stop with that war against healers or let's demand maximum effort for everyone. Pick one".

Doing a modest amount of damage as a healer absolutely isn't maximum effort in any stretch of the imagination. Maintain your dots and the vast majority of people will be happy with that, it's not until you hit savage and beyond that people start expecting more than that.