Warriors need MORE damage

[kamenkuro]

Well how about that?

[InnerBeastMode]

Tanks exist to take hits for the team and have high defense, not high offense.

Could you say this louder for the plebians in the back?

[Aana]

Could you say this louder for the plebians in the back?

Sure that's why they exist, but they are also the least played class in virtually every MMO that uses them. Players want to have a tangible impact when playing the class. Getting punched in the face is valuable for the team, but it is also doesn't make players feel very good. Its passive. The entire concept of tanking is a passive idea.

You could make every tank move like flash. Remove the damage. Leave the effects and enmity. Tanks would still do the same rotations, same stuff, but be hitting for 0. But, unsurprisingly, you would also loose a lot of players from the tank role, yet the game still needs tanks.

Tanks have to feel impactful while playing. Damage is the most direct way to appeal to players. You can talk about the philosophy of tanking all you want. But in the end, they have to be fun to play and most players like to make things deader to have fun.

Tanks doing pretty good damage in this game is one of the reasons the tank shortage is not as severe as most MMOs.

[Wintersandman]

Tanks have to feel impactful while playing. Damage is the most direct way to appeal to players. You can talk about the philosophy of tanking all you want. But in the end, they have to be fun to play and most players like to make things deader to have fun.

With that being said they could eliminate the damage penalty of tank stance and basically make it so that DPS stance is primarily used for Solo/OT. Which what is said above is why the meta of Tanks being in DPS stance is so heavily pushed. So essentially the Tank Stance would become a Defensive and Enmity buff. Some people like stance dancing and I don't mind it but it would eliminate the Fell Cleave heroes who think every pull can be done in DPS stance. I say Fell Cleave (it was the only ability that stands out) but it really applies to all tanks.

[Aana]

With that being said they could eliminate the damage penalty of tank stance and basically make it so that DPS stance is primarily used for Solo/OT. Which what is said above is why the meta of Tanks being in DPS stance is so heavily pushed. So essentially the Tank Stance would become a Defensive and Enmity buff. Some people like stance dancing and I don't mind it but it would eliminate the Fell Cleave heroes who think every pull can be done in DPS stance. I say Fell Cleave (it was the only ability that stands out) but it really applies to all tanks.

There are a lot of things you can do if you are OK with tanks doing damage. But they do still need to make a distinct difference between a DPS and a tank or we will just have 6 tanks and 2 healers doing everything.

I was responding to this persistent attitude that 'tanks shouldn't do damage cuz they are tanks'. That's fine and dandy in theory, but they need to be impactful enough that people feel empowered playing the role. There just aren't enough sword n board 'protect the party' types of players that will play tanks armed with noodles. Even though the 'concept' of a tank is fundamentally being high defense low offense. MMOs with the 'true' tank archetype don't have enough of the playerbase playing them is all im saying. You see SE struggling with this constantly with the yoyo of Str vs Vit vs Hybrid damage and the Str on accessories going all over the place. They started with the traditional tank role, but players found a way around it and had fun doing it. Now they decide if they force tanks to do as they were designed, or follow the playerbase that grew around the idea of DPS oriented tanking.

[Wintersandman]

There are a lot of things you can do if you are OK with tanks doing damage. But they do still need to make a distinct difference between a DPS and a tank or we will just have 6 tanks and 2 healers doing everything.

They started with the traditional tank role, but players found a way around it and had fun doing it. Now they decide if they force tanks to do as they were designed, or follow the playerbase that grew around the idea of DPS oriented tanking.

I agree with you and not saying that tanks should be the end all be all. But even if you eliminated the current damage penalty tanks will still fall short of a DPS. DPS stance as we currently call it as far as I am aware still doesn't put out as much as a RDM.

[Aana]

I agree with you and not saying that tanks should be the end all be all. But even if you eliminated the current damage penalty tanks will still fall short of a DPS. DPS stance as we currently call it as far as I am aware still doesn't put out as much as a RDM.

They don't have to be right on top of a DPS's dps to replace them. Their functionally immune to raid AOEs and can completely ignore mechanics that kill DPS. Allow single or even no healers, rotate HGs etc. If they even get withing spitting distance of DPS people start running tank comps.

Besides, they would have to utterly overhaul tons of tank abilities (what's unchained going to do? Increase damage? Well then we have to look at IR vs unchained and update as just 1 example of many) and rebalance encounters to account for increased tank damage. All that isn't going to happen. At best you could hope for a tank redesign from the ground up in 5.0 expansion, but no point in hoping for that kind of overhaul from a patch. All that is ignoring the debate of if you even SHOULD do all that. Pros and Cons and all that jazz.

[Tegernako]

Could you say this louder for the plebians in the back?

By what standard does this have to be the template for every single tank in existence?