Patch 4.2 micro-site updated

[CorbinDallas]

Seriously? You are still on this? How exactly are raiders like us ruining the game, do tell. Last time I logged in, I helped several parties out in need of a tank - in regular dungeons, that had nothing to do with raiding. So...how are we ruining the game?

If anything it's us raiders that ensure she gets her weekly clear of Rabanastre instead of abandoning after endless Hashmal wipes, because the general populace can't do simple mechanics.

*shrug*

[RiyahArp]

Raiders would ruin the game if they weren't isolated to savage, because they'd be demanding everything else in the game be harder to compensate. they already are on forums, despite the fact that most people don't even care to step into hard content and never touch difficult raids; it would just make it harder for them with no benefit to anyone. And I carry raiders by healing them in rab, not vice versa. Its raiders who tend to leave stuff like that the first time where things go wrong, I leave to switch to the job they were to rejoin in progress and finish the instance. I don't complain about low dps or parses, i go in and get the thing done or we leave at the time limit or mutual abandon.

[KaivaC]

Raiders would ruin the game if they weren't isolated to savage, because they'd be demanding everything else in the game be harder to compensate. they already are on forums, despite the fact that most people don't even care to step into hard content and never touch difficult raids; it would just make it harder for them with no benefit to anyone. And I carry raiders by healing them in rab, not vice versa. Its raiders who tend to leave stuff like that the first time where things go wrong, I leave to switch to the job they were to rejoin in progress and finish the instance. I don't complain about low dps or parses, i go in and get the thing done or we leave at the time limit or mutual abandon.

Raiders this...raiders that...are you absolutely sure that everything you're complaining about is somehow the fault of raiders? You're stating a lot of absolutes, but I've yet to see either myself or other raiders ruining the game. Am I asking for content to get harder? Yes! And it's not because I'm a raider. Look...regardless of this being a themepark FF MMO, this still carries a final fantasy title, and this game is still, at its core, an RPG. And on top of that, we are Level 70! The natural order of our genre is for content to actually be harder at this point. And if you were to mention something about raiders asking for Savage level difficulty in MSQ/dungeons, allow me to counter this by saying:

No, because that's just stupid.

At this level, our SB dungeons shouldn't be facerollable anymore. Should it be punishingly difficult? No! But there needs to be some level of challenge associated with our level that the devs are not putting in, and it's making the general base weaker. Rather than introduce nerfs and buffs to deal with the skill gap, players just need to git gud. I hate saying that term, but truthfully, players just need to git gud. And by git gud, just do your rotations if you're DPS'ing. Actually read your skills, use your AOEs when you have a pack of 4 or more, rotate your defensive CDs as a tank, keep your gear up to date, know the difference between Medica I/Benefic and Medica II/Benefic II and when to use them - things like that.

If the little bit I typed above, you haven't figured out by the time you hit level 70, then you need to get better as a player because at this point, this is extremely basic stuff that should've been learned before hitting the HW dungeons, or if you jump potioned, by the time you reach the first actually remotely challenging dungeon in the 4.x patch cycle in Bardam's Mettle.

[RiyahArp]

At this level, our SB dungeons shouldn't be facerollable anymore.

Sigh.

look, the dungeons are facerollable so that if I decide "hey, I want to take my i310 monk out for a spin and get used to their full kit after a long stretch of not playing it"...you know, PRACTICE...I can.

When content gets harder, I don't do this. I stick to the one job I have max geared, and stay as it, and the rest of my jobs are just numbers on a list. You make that content easy so players can practice and use all their jobs on it, especially when you can't gear all jobs equally. You're not seeing the value of easy practice content, but with some danger to it, because you probably just use your one job at 70 for the majority of content you need to do. Raiders are trained to do this apart from very early progression unless its absolutely impossible to keep on the geared job, because of gear and of muscle memory; its a big flaw of this game.

and ugh, if the content is so tightly tuned that you need to properly use medica 1 vs 2 (that means loosening aggro up a lot or forcing some really serious mp management consequences) its going to punish players more than you think. Like defensive CDS...can you imagine a boss that forced players to git gud using blackest night, or properly timing shake it off? How about one that forces movement abilities?

[Paladinleeds]

look, the dungeons are facerollable so that if I decide "hey, I want to take my i310 monk out for a spin and get used to their full kit after a long stretch of not playing it"...you know, PRACTICE...I can.

When content gets harder, I don't do this. I stick to the one job I have max geared, and stay as it, and the rest of my jobs are just numbers on a list. You make that content easy so players can practice and use all their jobs on it, especially when you can't gear all jobs equally.

And that's what lower level dungeons would be for (thus helping keep them more relevant). You get some practice in, shake off the rust, and pull back up. I think that would be fair. And for savage level dungeons? Yes, but make them optional and not count towards the expert roulette (perhaps have a Savage roulette for that?). This way you don't overgate the game but at the same time you push everyone to get better bit by bit.

[RiyahArp]

And that's what lower level dungeons would be for (thus helping keep them more relevant). You get some practice in, shake off the rust, and pull back up.

I don't get all my kit in low level dungeons. WAR comes to mind...68 + gives you two absurdly potent abilities you need to balance and use in combat, shake it off and inner release. Just using Blackest night properly is rough. They have to give you level 70 training combat content because of that.

[Paladinleeds]

I don't get all my kit in low level dungeons. WAR comes to mind...68 + gives you two absurdly potent abilities you need to balance and use in combat, shake it off and inner release. Just using Blackest night properly is rough. They have to give you level 70 training combat content because of that.

So, have the dungeons build up over the course of the expansion. Or perhaps in Castrum Abania too? That way for example Kugane Castle and Temple of the Fist would be easiest, then Skalla, then Hell's Lid (I think), and Fractal Hard Mode would be more difficult than Skalla, then the one after those 2 would be harder then those 2, etc. Then you've got a ways to handle it. And as the expansion goes along, the casual content gets harder still. If they did that, I'd be happy, but I don't like the idea of difficulty flatlining, we need to bring up the pace. I'm sure that you'd agree on? Just the semantics of how we approach it seem to differ. But we can work together to try and find a solution.

[popotaro]

[era1Ne]

Seriously? You are still on this? How exactly are raiders like us ruining the game, do tell. Last time I logged in, I helped several parties out in need of a tank - in regular dungeons, that had nothing to do with raiding. So...how are we ruining the game?

Lies!!! You are a raider, you have to be a bad person. I am joking of couse

If anything it's us raiders that ensure she gets her weekly clear of Rabanastre instead of abandoning after endless Hashmal wipes, because the general populace can't do simple mechanics.

*shrug*

I don't think comments like this help as an argument against raiders hurting the community. I am sure you are not, but the comment sounds a bit arrogant. No offense

Raiders would ruin the game if they weren't isolated to savage, because they'd be demanding everything else in the game be harder to compensate.

The game is for everyone. This includes raiders, non-raiders, crafter and so and and in my opinion it would be great, if everyone would be able to understand each other and this of course counts for non-raiders aswell.

they already are on forums, despite the fact that most people don't even care to step into hard content and never touch difficult raids; it would just make it harder for them with no benefit to anyone. And I carry raiders by healing them in rab, not vice versa. Its raiders who tend to leave stuff like that the first time where things go wrong, I leave to switch to the job they were to rejoin in progress and finish the instance. I don't complain about low dps or parses, i go in and get the thing done or we leave at the time limit or mutual abandon.

Raider=/=Raider just like person=/=persons. You can't take all raiders and say they have the same behaviour or attitude. Let me tell you from my own experience, that i've seen every kind of behavior from raiders and non raiders. Some of them are very polite, others aren't. This may be slightly off-topic, but i had to deal with enough unfriendly new players in mentor roulette or chat. Some of them really think, because they are new, they can do everything and everyone else has to deal with it, since they are new. This kind of behavior is absolutely arrogant and ignorant. At the end of the day, this is a teamgame and one community. This means everyone, including novice players or veterans should try to respect each other.

PS: I wonder when Square enix will update the micro site, because i really want to know if this is the raid gear

[KaivaC]

Sigh.

look, the dungeons are facerollable so that if I decide "hey, I want to take my i310 monk out for a spin and get used to their full kit after a long stretch of not playing it"...you know, PRACTICE...I can.

When content gets harder, I don't do this. I stick to the one job I have max geared, and stay as it, and the rest of my jobs are just numbers on a list. You make that content easy so players can practice and use all their jobs on it, especially when you can't gear all jobs equally. You're not seeing the value of easy practice content, but with some danger to it, because you probably just use your one job at 70 for the majority of content you need to do. Raiders are trained to do this apart from very early progression unless its absolutely impossible to keep on the geared job, because of gear and of muscle memory; its a big flaw of this game.

and ugh, if the content is so tightly tuned that you need to properly use medica 1 vs 2 (that means loosening aggro up a lot or forcing some really serious mp management consequences) its going to punish players more than you think. Like defensive CDS...can you imagine a boss that forced players to git gud using blackest night, or properly timing shake it off? How about one that forces movement abilities?

Then practice in leveling dungeons. If your argument is going to be that, then fine, let the MSQ dungeons be faceroll and let the dungeons that follow 4.1 be harder, slowly. Start with Temple of the Fist and gradually step the difficulty up from there. See? Took care of two arguments there - you have Sirensong Sea - Ala Mhigo to practice after a long stretch, and the post 4.0 dungeons start stepping up in difficulty. Two birds, one stone. Oh and about the one job thing...I have pretty much tried every dungeon on every class that I currently have at 70 (DRK, PLD, SAM, RDM, AST, SMN). I enter content based on what job I feel like going in at a time - oh, and I also have gone into the Savage/Ex content with multiple jobs, based either on what I feel like doing, or what the PF needs. The reason I brought up the Medica 1 vs 2 is because there are honestly bad healers that will do nothing but spam Medica 2 thinking that's because it says 2, although admittedly, that was a bad example as I meant ST heals vs AOE heals.

And yes, I do want dungeons to eventually get to the point where tanks will have to use heavy mitigation, DPS to use their full kit, and healers to properly manage 3 other party members' health. Maybe not in this expansion, but the next one when we hit lvl 80, yes, I would like to see dungeons requiring players to start doing that.