Request: Ability to re-assign class levels after 1.20

[Duuude007]

When it was noted that CON would be WHM and THM would be BLM it was pretty clear that the changes would be pretty dynamic. Now that we've seen those changes I think it's fair to say that THM can't even be considered THM anymore, it's not what the original design of THM is.

The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

[Tsuga]

The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

Yeah I don't really get how people thought that a class who's only healing abilities were a "regen" over straight up "cure" (a white mage ability...) was somehow going to be the main healer. It didn't have any of the abilities that are normally given to white mage, and the only reason the THM was a better healer was because of cone AoE vs. CNJ's donut AoE.

I guess I just don't see how people thought that SE intended for THM to be the main healer based on its spell pool. It didn't have the buffs, it didn't have the cures, and it didn't have the -na spells. All it had was cone AoE and Sacrifice - which was just an easily exploitable combo.

'S kinda why I don't buy it when people claim that they thought that THM would be main healer. You'd have to be blind to look at the two spell lists and say "well THM is CLEARLY the white mage here". A more reasonable explanation is that people leveled THM because its cone AoE and Sacrifice made it more desired in parties at the time, and now they feel burned because they spent all of that time leveling what the player base considered a better healer, over what actually was supposed to be the healing class.

[Spider-Dan]

I guess I just don't see how people thought that SE intended for THM to be the main healer based on its spell pool. It didn't have the buffs, it didn't have the cures, and it didn't have the -na spells. All it had was cone AoE and Sacrifice - which was just an easily exploitable combo.

'S kinda why I don't buy it when people claim that they thought that THM would be main healer.

So then, when you saw CNJ's spell list of full elemental nuke lines (along with ancient magic nukes), you thought it was clear that CNJ absolutely would not be BLM?

It wasn't obvious either way. Both classes had aspects of different traditional FF jobs. CNJ could have been BLM just as easily as they were made WHM.

[Tsuga]

So then, when you saw CNJ's spell list of full elemental nuke lines (along with ancient magic nukes), you thought it was clear that CNJ absolutely would not be BLM?

It wasn't obvious either way. Both classes had aspects of different traditional FF jobs. CNJ could have been BLM just as easily as they were made WHM.

So out of all of my posts in response to the actual topic, you picked the most off-topic one to respond to? Man, just proving my point that you don't have a leg to stand on, here.

I'll indulge, though.

Yes, I looked at CNJ's spell list and saw that they appear to be a combo of white mage and black mage when classes were introduced (way back in 2009/early 2010). That is why I chose CNJ. I looked at THM and said "well, looks like a debuffer to me. Not interested".

Once JOBS were announced I thought they'd split CNJ into white mage and black mage, given that it has the spell pool from both 'jobs', so I figured that that would leave THM with red mage. I never once thought that THM would ever become white mage because it bears no resemblance to white mage, other than a shaky plot element about reviving the dead (which raise doesn't even do in the XIV universe, so the argument that that's related to white magic is moot. Especially because it's considered a dark art in the storyline (derp)), and one healing over time ability.

Now, with the class changes I will admit that I think it's stupid that THM becomes BLM. If anything it has more in common with RDM (but even then that's a stretch). I think the best move would have been to make CNJ split to BLM and WHM, but having two jobs per class is not within the dev teams resources if they want to release jobs in within their projected window, so I'm assuming that's why THM got stuck with BLM. I still don't see how anyone can make an argument for THM becoming WHM, especially with the class adjustments in 1.18, when CNJ essentially became the main healer with the new battle system (considering you ranked up to 50 since then, you had to have seen this coming).

Again, you aren't entitled to anything from SE. You made the illogical choice given all of the signs that were out there, and now you're butt-hurt about it. Sorry, but I don't think that's good enough for compensation, and I don't think that it's good enough to send SE down an inevitable slippery slope of wiping player's asses whenever they mess all over themselves.

[Spider-Dan]

The original design for THM was clear in the job description, (i.e. master of destruction, moreso than even the disciples of War). It just wasnt implemented as intended, (it was overpowered as healer & in survivability) and took a long time to be fully rebalanced, due to other, higher priority fixes. Guess what? It is now almost fully rebalanced to reflect that original job decription.

Given that shortly after release, Sacrifice was specifically buffed to heal more on the initial cast, it would seem that the original vision for THM (as a healer) is what existed prior to 1.18.

[Rentahamster]

Given that shortly after release, Sacrifice was specifically buffed to heal more on the initial cast, it would seem that the original vision for THM (as a healer) is what existed prior to 1.18.

The original job description said that it's a destructive class. How does a slight buff to healing potency all of a sudden make it a class specifically designed for healing?

So then, when you saw CNJ's spell list of full elemental nuke lines (along with ancient magic nukes), you thought it was clear that CNJ absolutely would not be BLM?

It wasn't obvious either way. Both classes had aspects of different traditional FF jobs. CNJ could have been BLM just as easily as they were made WHM.

Everyone's assessment of CNJ at the beginning was that it was a mix of both WHM and BLM since it had the trademark skills from both.

The general assessment of THM was that it was something akin to a magic-heavy RDM due to the debuffs.

The point the above poster is making is that it was obvious that CNJ had the most spells related to healing and defense, much more than THM.

CNJ: cure, stoneskin, protect, shell, shockspikes, paralyna, silena, poisona

THM: sacrifice, stygian spikes

The vast majority of THM's spells are for debuffing/nuking. CNJ had more healing/buffing spells from the start.

[Duuude007]

Given that shortly after release, Sacrifice was specifically buffed to heal more on the initial cast, it would seem that the original vision for THM (as a healer) is what existed prior to 1.18.

Given that shortly after release, Scourge, Banish, and Absorb spells were specifically buffed to deal more damage when cast, it would seem that the original vision for THM (as a damage dealer) is what existed prior to 1.18.

Either both are true or neither is true. Nice try.

[Spider-Dan]

Either both are true or neither is true.

...or, THM was envisioned as a hybrid, just like CNJ was.

[Duuude007]

...or, THM was envisioned as a hybrid, just like CNJ was.

Thaumaturge (THM)
In the hands of a skilled practitioner, thaumaturgy can be a force of terrifying destruction. At the heart of this school of magic lies the ability to call forth and command the latent aether within oneself through deep introspection.
To mold that aether into sorcery, the thaumaturge makes use of a scepter or staff, within which is housed a medium - a natural stone imbued with magical properties. The guild is centered at the Arrzaneth Ossuary in Ul'dah, within whose hallowed walls are said to reside powers of life, death, and the beyond.

Thaumaturges are unparalleled in their powers of destruction, eclipsing even the Disciples of War.

By enfeebling enemies and enhancing their allies, thaumaturgy can prove to be an invaluable asset, particularly in battles of attrition.

versus

Conjurer (CNJ)
Conjury calls upon elemental forces present in nature and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings. A wand or cane made from unworked wood is then utilized to focus the aether until it manifests as the desired spell. The seat of the Conjurers' Guild lies at the Stillglade Fane in Gridania, where the voices of Eorzea's elementals are said to be the most powerful.
Conjurers are trained to coax metaphysical forces forth from the elements which comprise all of creation, allowing them to weave powerful spells.

Attuned to the essence of all things around them, the conjurers' intimacy with all forms of being enables them to shift between both offensive and defensive magic as needed.

See the distinction? We certainly do.

[Spider-Dan]

Based on the native MP management abilities THM is scheduled to receive, it is unlikely that THM will be able to support an MP pool as a cross-class healer.