Survey: Community Opinions Regarding Parsing/Parsers in Final Fantasy XIV

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Never seen a need for parser, except in the most hardcore groups. Used for eliminating the weakest link. For the masses, if Diversion is in your rotation and kept on cool down, and still seeing orange now and then, you're fine. Or if MT dies and boss immediately smacks you, you're fine. I find it easy to tell how well I am doing that way.

If there's a 'main' tank, I would assume it's in 8 player content...

Thus shouldn't the off tank probably be behind the main tank before the other dps?
Rotating Provoke and Shirk should keep all the tanks above the dps.
It's free enmity!

[Vstarstruck]

I'm playing with pugs, who have similar skill as I do, while that is certainly a more insular crowd, it's not a closed/fixed group as you're implying. That is because the game lets me filter players out that are clearly looking for a carry and as such tension for me is non-existent whereas FF14 expects me to becomplacent in carrying ignorant players.

I find that when you remove the agenda (i.e. players sneaking into DF trying to be carried or watching netflix, or in PF who really need more practice in Exdeath, but join a GCO to clear party, etc.) it generally removes the rift between the community. There will always be harassment claims and they absolutely should be handled, but please don't conflate harassment with parsers as they are not directly related.

You proved my point again, that is still a closed group, and not with anyone, parser harassment is common in wow, but you admited you keep away from that so point?

The problem is that you do not have any actual data that suggests one way or the other. You are misinterpreting your emotional bias and limited anecdotal experience as analysis.

You have the same problem don't you? Esp when you admit being in a crowd of a select few, you do not know what the majority is, therefor I can say you are the one stating a conclusion with anecdotal experience and having emotional bias. Because guess what? Parser harassment happens IN FFXIV!!! when they have it against the ToS, it is pretty obvious it will only increase if you give out a public parser, and that is why SE does not want to do it. Are you really suggesting one person vs the devs who has chat logs, going to believe YOUR "anecdotal experience as analysis"

grats on the biggest pot meet kettle I ever saw.

Yoshi P, as well as SE, is capable of being incorrect on a stance and are capable of changing their viewpoint, no matter how polarizing it may be.

Ya sure its not like he has no clue on what goes reported and have people relay important information time to time.

A person that thinks they know more then Gm team/ development team of the game in question, unbelievable. You are in some cave if you think parser harassment is very few cases.

[KaldeaSahaline]

Never seen a need for parser, except in the most hardcore groups. Used for eliminating the weakest link. For the masses, if Diversion is in your rotation and kept on cool down, and still seeing orange now and then, you're fine. Or if MT dies and boss immediately smacks you, you're fine. I find it easy to tell how well I am doing that way.

I very strongly recommend you check out ACT to realign your perceptions. Not only is your analysis of threat and DPS completely incorrect, there are other factors that are significantly reducing your "merit" to make this statement.

You proved my point again, that is still a closed group, and not with anyone, parser harassment is common in wow, but you admited you keep away from that so point?

I must be misunderstanding you somewhere. I don't "intentionally" keep away from parser harassment in WoW. I simply don't see it. I still PUG content frequently.

You have the same problem don't you? Esp when you admit being in a crowd of a select few, you do not know what the majority is, therefor I can say you are the one stating a conclusion with anecdotal experience and having emotional bias. Because guess what? Parser harassment happens IN FFXIV!!! when they have it against the ToS, it is pretty obvious it will only increase if you give out a public parser, and that is why SE does not want to do it. Are you really suggesting one person vs the devs who has chat logs, going to believe YOUR "anecdotal experience as analysis"

Read my post, and read yours. Which one of us sounds "emotional"? Where did I say anything about being in a crowd of "select few"?

The other major difference in our posts is that I am stating my opinion and providing examples to support my statements. You are stating yours as if it was fact. Which is not the case.

Another tidbit you had wrong is I have never once stated parser harassment does not occur EVER. That is ridiculous stance to take. I've always tried to direct your attention from the constant combination of the words "parser" and "harassment". They are 2 separate things.

Ya sure its not like he has no clue on what goes reported and have people relay important information time to time.

A person that thinks they know more then Gm team/ development team of the game in question, unbelievable. You are in some cave if you think parser harassment is very few cases.

Again, in what world did I ever say or imply I knew more than Yoshi personally? I've simply stated examples of why Yoshi's word isn't the hand of god.

Please, do me a favor. The next time you PERSONALLY see harassment stemming from a parser, copy and paste it, report it, and then post it here for all of us to see. This way I can keep track of it.

[RiyahArp]

Kaidea, I think she means that even if you pug, you probably pug at the highest difficulty levels where they filter out harassment because the pool of raiders that can play at that level is small anyways. You can't really evaluate the parser culture because the bulk of it is going to hit people in the middle reaches of skill, in the same way Overwatch pros and normal players have different cultures and player rankings. Generally world firsters you have to ignore in these discussions; they aren't the ones who are indicative of the general culture of the game.

[Sebazy]

To chime in with the above:

I pugged over 60 A12S kills and an order of magnitude more attempts after 3.55 alone. The majority of these were with total PF pugs with a number of clears from helping other statics both in my FC as well as others.

These were groups of all skill levels so whilst it's not a large enough data set to truly be conclusive. It's substantial enough that it gives me confidence in my experience.

The only time I ever saw anything remotely close to parser harassment was 'we need more dps, where can we start?' There were a couple of occasions where someone would get replaced, but it was usually for failures such as stasis or sacrament. I never saw anyone flatly called out in all these clears and for good reason too.

Let me be clear, I'm not denying it happens, but it's nothing like as frequent as people often like to make out.

Kald is also absolutely correct regarding Yoshi. Developers are humans too, and shock horror, a lot of them don't actually play their game as much as their fanbase do. There are a myriad of examples where the community has figured out ways to 'break the game' and 'bend the rules' that the development team didn't foresee.

[RiyahArp]

Sebazy, that's still a tiny amount of players that managed to self-select through raids, and who also will not risk being that because of punishment. The issue is what happens if people finally don't have to worry about being banned for talking about DPS, as well as what happens if parser culture filters out of raids and into casual culture.

[Sebazy]

If we go by the following two assumptions:

Talking DPS numbers would be allowed.

Harassing someone over their DPS (Or indeed anything else) would still be an offence in the same way that it is now.

I actually think very little would change. Yes you'd get people discussing DPS in 8 man PF raid content but really now, where's the harm in that as long as it stays civil? If it doesn't? Report it, it's one less cretin that we all have to deal with.

As far as more casual content goes? Again, don't like it? There's a vote kick for that. We have the tools to police ourselves to a fair degree, and contrary to what these threads suggest, it's not only the pro parse crowd that can use them.

[LalaRu]

Parsers are controversial because we are trying to match them with different categories of players: normal players, raiders, and high end raiders.

When you are a player, you don't need a parser! You can go trough all the content without it, without optimal rotations, and PUGging all the duties, even the first tier of raiding. Frankly, in this cases the parsers are nowhere near to be useful or needed. You can live without it.

When you are a raider, you enter the gray zone. You want improve yourself, you look around for things and stuff, you know your rotation is important. Parsers may help you but aren't that a necessity, because when you educate yourself enough for the role you are playing, it is very likely you got into the minimum reqs for make the kill in all raiding content but the very latest. Very likely, you will make the kill in the last raiding tier you missed, when things will be relaxed with echo buffs and alike.

When you are an high end raider, parsers take here the role. You aren't trying to found a rotation: you are perfecting it. You want push out every single bit of more dps from your rotation analizing how you use it, what you use, when, etc. You don't leave anything unaccounted. Even the job you're playing. With your own research for the ultimate flawless play of your job, you also look for the best party composition: if this raid is better done with two pld, two pld they are. You and your group are pushing for the best and ultimate party job matching for the kill. Make the kill is not a goal, it is only the starting point. You want make it faster and easier as possible, and this can only be achieved not only with the best personal skills, but also with the best party job composition. If you strive to be an high end raider, you have to master the job the raid require you have. "Maining" a single job is stuff for normal raiders, not you. And here, parsers will shine, giving you and your party all the ins and outs of a kill, and all the data you need to understand what when and where your party can improve. High end raiding is not for everyone.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Kald is also absolutely correct regarding Yoshi. Developers are humans too, and shock horror, a lot of them don't actually play their game as much as their fanbase do. There are a myriad of examples where the community has figured out ways to 'break the game' and 'bend the rules' that the development team didn't foresee.

Just to emphasise this point, Yoshida dislikes how aggressive tanks and healers player—being outright baffled that whomever held the boss did so without their tank stance. Likewise, they never imagined we would use Huton pre-pull or prep Wraith/Abandon stacks and simply wait 25-60 seconds. Citing the devs for gameplay examples doesn't work. They simply don't have the time to micromanage the game to the same extent we do.

Never seen a need for parser, except in the most hardcore groups. Used for eliminating the weakest link. For the masses, if Diversion is in your rotation and kept on cool down, and still seeing orange now and then, you're fine. Or if MT dies and boss immediately smacks you, you're fine. I find it easy to tell how well I am doing that way.

Ninja specializes in aggro management while Dragoon can cut its own by half every thirty seconds. Going off enmity, both would be perceived as weak jobs yet Dragoon currently sits among the best jobs in the entire game, both in its damage output and utility. Never use enmity as a basis for damage.

[Tridus]

Ninja specializes in aggro management while Dragoon can cut its own by half every thirty seconds. Going off enmity, both would be perceived as weak jobs yet Dragoon currently sits among the best jobs in the entire game, both in its damage output and utility. Never use enmity as a basis for damage.

Definitely. Also someone who uses Diversion before their big burst damage will look lower than someone who doesn't, even though using Diversion is a way to be nice to your tank.

Just to emphasise this point, Yoshida dislikes how aggressive tanks and healers player—being outright baffled that whomever held the boss did so without their tank stance. Likewise, they never imagined we would use Huton pre-pull or prep Wraith/Abandon stacks and simply wait 25-60 seconds. Citing the devs for gameplay examples doesn't work. They simply don't have the time to micromanage the game to the same extent we do.

I figure if he really disliked it, he'd change it.