SE: if it aint broke, dont fix it (War)

[Chrono_Rising]

You aren't reading his posts.

To be clear for Upheaval:
Deliverance Damage: 4000 (roughly)

Defiance damage: 6100 (roughly)

Unchained + Defiance damage: 7600 (roughly)

So does anyone have a way that the damage from upheaval is actually calculated? I agree that upheaval tool tip gives no indication that it ignores the stance penalty of deliverance, but clearly 25% more hp isn't being translated to 25% more damage. Does anyone know how the hp buff is actually calculated?

I am reading his posts. You're literally repeating what I said. You should be doing more damage with Upheaval in Defiance with Unchained. That is how Unchained works! That is literally the whole point of the skill.

Yes, I agree, it was confusing with you responding to questioning an HP increasing effect that I wasn't questioning, so I believe time was wasted in trying to understand where your posts were coming from. The issue was me reading in a damage ignoring penalty that wasn't there, and I got that from your post. I agree the tool tip doesn't say anything about ignoring the damage penalty.

I'm interested in how exactly the HP increase translates to a damage increase now. If I increase my max HP by 25% with deliverance upheaval is increasing its damage by about 50%. If this is with tank stance that means the increase for a 25% HP increase is in the realm of 90% damage. Does anyone know how this is scaling or why it is so high?

[RamzaRuglia]

So does anyone have a way that the damage from upheaval is actually calculated? I agree that upheaval tool tip gives no indication that it ignores the stance penalty of deliverance, but clearly 25% more hp isn't being translated to 25% more damage. Does anyone know how the hp buff is actually calculated?

I posted the averages in a previous post, but other than doing the math in reverse to see, it's hard to tell without SE making it obvious in the tooltip. That's why I added in Thrill of Battle as an additional control to see if there were extra numbers to pull from.

[Chrono_Rising]

I posted the averages in a previous post, but other than doing the math in reverse to see, it's hard to tell without SE making it obvious in the tooltip. That's why I added in Thrill of Battle as an additional control to see if there were extra numbers to pull from.

Interestingly when I do upheaval + thrill of battle in defiance I am getting almost exactly a 1.2 multiplier for my damage. I wonder why deliverance is putting out so much more damage than I would expect. Which is very weird in that increasing HP by 25% has such dramatic gains upwards of 90% (when includine unchained to negate the tank stance penalty) but that increasing my HP by 20% only sees an increase of somethign like ...20%.

[Wintersandman]

You should be doing more damage with Upheaval in Defiance with Unchained.

Unchained =
Nullifies the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.
Duration: 20s
Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance.
Effect is canceled if Defiance ends.
Shares a recast timer with Inner Release.

Upheaval = https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Upheaval
Delivers an attack with a potency of 300.
Potency decreases as own HP decreases.
Potency also affected by maximum HP-increasing effects granted to self.
Beast Gauge Cost: 20
Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance.
Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.

Upheaval already ignores the damage penalty so it is essentially double dipping. Which Inner Beast does not do.

Upheaval has an old tooltip on Gamerscape................... Which is why Chrono and I were both interpreting it incorrectly.

[Chrono_Rising]

Unchained =
Nullifies the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.
Duration: 20s
Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance.
Effect is canceled if Defiance ends.
Shares a recast timer with Inner Release.

Upheaval =
Delivers an attack with a potency of 300.
Potency decreases as own HP decreases.
Potency also affected by maximum HP-increasing effects granted to self.
Beast Gauge Cost: 20
Can only be executed while under the effect of Defiance or Deliverance.
Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.

Upheaval already ignores the damage penalty so it is essentially double dipping. Which Inner Beast does not do.

I see you included link disregard.

(See I thought I saw that too, but I cannot find that tool tip in game (specifically the part about ignoring the damage penalty). Where did you get this from?)

I think this raises the question of how upheaval is actually calculating its damage because something seems weird about the damage gains between thrill of battle and deliverance.

[Wintersandman]

See I thought I saw that too, but I cannot find that tool tip in game (specifically the part about ignoring the damage penalty). Where did you get this from?

I edited my post above. I pulled up the ffxiv guide and it had it differently from gamerscape. Which probably also changed it in game during 4.05 warrior changes.

[Chrono_Rising]

I edited my post above. I pulled up the ffxiv guide and it had it differently from gamerscape. Which probably also changed it in game during 4.05 warrior changes.

I agree but I still think something is fishy with the way its calculating its damage gains somewhere.

If it raised your damage on the skill by 25% then I would expect that the damage reduction from tank stance would make the skill be exactly where it was (1.25*.8=1), I would also expect thrill of battle to roughly emulate the dps gain that deliverance does (since there is only a 5% difference in the HP raising effects between those skills). But neither of those things are true. Which leads me to wonder what the game is actually doing to calculate the HP bonus from those skills.

[Wintersandman]

I agree but I still think something is fishy with the way its calculating its damage gains somewhere.

I agree but I still think something is fishy with the way its calculating its damage gains somewhere.

So I found it on the updates in 4.1. Here is the note under resolved issues.

An issue wherein the description for the warrior action Upheaval stated "Ignores the damage penalty inflicted by Defiance."
* The above sentence has been removed, and the action's effects remain unchanged.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...04942848db9539

Also I agree with your analysis. Currently it is ignoring the 20% damage penalty if you just look at the HP modifier. Doing the math that Ramza generated with his numbers. It is a 25% gain not a 1 for 1 swap and thus ignoring the 20% damage penalty.

[RamzaRuglia]

I edited my post above. I pulled up the ffxiv guide and it had it differently from gamerscape. Which probably also changed it in game during 4.05 warrior changes.

The description was actually edited in Patch 4.1: See Notes

When it was actually changed, who knows, as the notes just say it was fixing an incorrect description, and nothing was mentioned in 4.05 notes.

EDIT: Beat me to the link.

[Chrono_Rising]

I actually cannot reproduce your deliverance number. Mine is far lower despite having higher HP. My no crit no direct hit average is closer to 4000 than 5000.