Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[winsock]

Would appreciate an in game DPS meter or PPS (potency per second) meter.

They add value to the experience and provide useful information. It would be nice if I didn't need to place my trust in a 3rd party application.

[RichardButte]

So that story alone proves what you are saying to be false.

I'm sorry but nowhere did I say it's impossible to tell if a DPS player is bad, only that it's so infinitely easier to tell if a tank or healer is bad that determining this about a DPS is like a forensics investigation by comparison.

If the tank can't hold aggro, you know the tank isn't doing their job. If the tank dies, the healer isn't doing their job. You know these facts IMMEDIATELY without needing to look at gear for even a moment.

The situation you described sadly proves my point: you basically had to interview this DPS while examining their gear to get the info you needed, info which should really be readily available in a game that features DPS checks as part of the challenge.

[Vstarstruck]

I'm sorry but nowhere did I say it's impossible to tell if a DPS player is bad, only that it's so infinitely easier to tell if a tank or healer is bad that determining this about a DPS is like a forensics investigation by comparison.

If the tank can't hold aggro, you know the tank isn't doing their job. If the tank dies, the healer isn't doing their job. You know these facts IMMEDIATELY without needing to look at gear for even a moment.

The situation you described sadly proves my point: you basically had to interview this DPS while examining their gear to get the info you needed, info which should really be readily available in a game that features DPS checks as part of the challenge.

The person in question did that AFTER seeing how slow stuff was dying. Gear is not a concern, overall performance is. They where just trying to figure out WHY it was so bad. So.. this situation would taken the same course with a DPS meter. Also you did say "never" so you are disagreeing with your own post, maybe an edit is in order.

[RichardButte]

The person in question did that AFTER seeing how slow stuff was dying. Gear is not a concern, overall performance is. They where just trying to figure out WHY it was so bad. So.. this situation would taken the same course with a DPS meter. Also you did say "never" so you are disagreeing with your own post, maybe an edit is in order.

I said: "a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it".

Again, I acknowledge later in the OP that it's possible to get called out, but it's also entirely possible people pulling 130 DPS will never even know just how poorly they're playing, largely because of how easy it is to hide in a group of 8 or even 24 players.

It definitely CAN happen, but compare it to how much easier it is to tell when a tank or healer is underperforming and you'll see what I was trying to say.

[Lord_Zlatan]

I said: "a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it".

Again, I acknowledge later in the OP that it's possible to get called out, but it's also entirely possible people pulling 130 DPS will never even know just how poorly they're playing, largely because of how easy it is to hide in a group of 8 or even 24 players.

It definitely CAN happen, but compare it to how much easier it is to tell when a tank or healer is underperforming and you'll see what I was trying to say.

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

[RichardButte]

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

Exactly.

Healers and tanks are held to a standard that DPS players aren't, and that's both generally unfair and also makes the two least played roles played even less, which only drives queue times up further for DPS players.

If being a DPS carried with it the same level of responsibility as a healer or tank, we'd probably see queue times level out for everyone.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Exactly.

Healers and tanks are held to a standard that DPS players aren't, and that's both generally unfair and also makes the two least played roles played even less, which only drives queue times up further for DPS players.

If being a DPS carried with it the same level of responsibility as a healer or tank, we'd probably see queue times level out for everyone.

Until it actually does though.

i haven't been in the endgame scene for a while (long break) but when BCoB Turn 4 and 5 were really hard, bad DPS meant u lost. Flat out. Its sad because its about 5% of content that makes it noticeable.

I play all 3 roles. Tank and Heals i prefer because I KNOW i do a good job at them (above and beyond bare essential reqs). Even though I love DRG (in all FF games) you yourself know if u killed it, but others don't.

[RichardButte]

Until it actually does though.

i haven't been in the endgame scene for a while (long break) but when BCoB Turn 4 and 5 were really hard, bad DPS meant u lost. Flat out. Its sad because its about 5% of content that makes it noticeable.

I play all 3 roles. Tank and Heals i prefer because I KNOW i do a good job at them (above and beyond bare essential reqs). Even though I love DRG (in all FF games) you yourself know if u killed it, but others don't.

You mean until a DPS check shows up to challenge the DPS players?

Absolutely, and that one is very much SE's fault: if you level a tank or a healer and participate in any manner of group content, you either learn your role or get kicked repeatedly.

The fact that DPS don't experience this same scrutiny ultimately makes them worse off in the long run and in for a rude awakening when they finally DO come up against a DPS check.

[Avatre]

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

But when everyone BUT the tank dies, and the fight is still cleared...same stuff happens.

[Lord_Zlatan]

But when everyone BUT the tank dies, and the fight is still cleared...same stuff happens.

Many encounters where the tank is the only one left, it is usually not the tanks fault.