Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Vstarstruck]

I recently switched from maining a healer to maining a DPS, and this just occurred to me: I went from a high pressure role, to a NO pressure role. I'll explain...

Unless you're in a static that runs a parser, a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it.

Think about it...

1. No DPS meters so no one can see how bad they are.

2. If the DPS in a dungeon seems slow, they can (and WILL) blame the healer for not DPSing enough.

You know, I been telling a story lately, though people may be tired of hearing it. It is a few days old and posted about it in the vent thing. I am just shocked someone did try get away with it. So the thing was, someone that I talk to was doing that final expert dungeon, the one you need ilevel 300 for. It was noticed right away on first pull it was going slow. (I had to explain in yet another thread with a similar issue that experienced players can notice slow or fast pacing on the first pull, you do not need a parser.) So she checked the gear while taking note thunder was not being used at all. So she commented about asking if they had i290 weapon from job quest and to use thunder, no comment was given. By the time they where on the last pull before the first boss, she said stop and to give them a minute. After waiting for a long time for a reply the DPS in question made a comment questioning why they are asking about gear. So finally having enough between the poor performance and poor communication said "Please do not do high level content without doing your lv 70 job quest" then kicked them.

So that story alone proves what you are saying to be false. But I am not sure what the norm is. In this other vent thread one poster was talking about how running into bad dps is rare and admitted he can't notice if people are doing their jobs or not. If that is common ten I guess on average they do get away with it more often then not, and that would support the idea how that BLM made it to the final expert dungeon being not prepared gear wise, rotation wise and spell wise.

Going to the final expert dungeon having fire III to fire I, sometimes casting fire II for a rotation and never thunder,flare, or foul(since they did not have it) has no excuse. This game badly needs tutorial requirements before being able to queue up for some content. "requirements not met, level 70 job quest" " requirements not met, level 300 weapon or above" "requirements not met, clearing hall of novice advanced rotations" If the player base are going to act like babies, they should be treated like it, it is no different then removing chat from feast.

[RichardButte]

So that story alone proves what you are saying to be false.

I'm sorry but nowhere did I say it's impossible to tell if a DPS player is bad, only that it's so infinitely easier to tell if a tank or healer is bad that determining this about a DPS is like a forensics investigation by comparison.

If the tank can't hold aggro, you know the tank isn't doing their job. If the tank dies, the healer isn't doing their job. You know these facts IMMEDIATELY without needing to look at gear for even a moment.

The situation you described sadly proves my point: you basically had to interview this DPS while examining their gear to get the info you needed, info which should really be readily available in a game that features DPS checks as part of the challenge.

[Vstarstruck]

I'm sorry but nowhere did I say it's impossible to tell if a DPS player is bad, only that it's so infinitely easier to tell if a tank or healer is bad that determining this about a DPS is like a forensics investigation by comparison.

If the tank can't hold aggro, you know the tank isn't doing their job. If the tank dies, the healer isn't doing their job. You know these facts IMMEDIATELY without needing to look at gear for even a moment.

The situation you described sadly proves my point: you basically had to interview this DPS while examining their gear to get the info you needed, info which should really be readily available in a game that features DPS checks as part of the challenge.

The person in question did that AFTER seeing how slow stuff was dying. Gear is not a concern, overall performance is. They where just trying to figure out WHY it was so bad. So.. this situation would taken the same course with a DPS meter. Also you did say "never" so you are disagreeing with your own post, maybe an edit is in order.

[RichardButte]

The person in question did that AFTER seeing how slow stuff was dying. Gear is not a concern, overall performance is. They where just trying to figure out WHY it was so bad. So.. this situation would taken the same course with a DPS meter. Also you did say "never" so you are disagreeing with your own post, maybe an edit is in order.

I said: "a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it".

Again, I acknowledge later in the OP that it's possible to get called out, but it's also entirely possible people pulling 130 DPS will never even know just how poorly they're playing, largely because of how easy it is to hide in a group of 8 or even 24 players.

It definitely CAN happen, but compare it to how much easier it is to tell when a tank or healer is underperforming and you'll see what I was trying to say.

[Lord_Zlatan]

I said: "a DPS player can be utterly horrible at their role yet never get called out for it".

Again, I acknowledge later in the OP that it's possible to get called out, but it's also entirely possible people pulling 130 DPS will never even know just how poorly they're playing, largely because of how easy it is to hide in a group of 8 or even 24 players.

It definitely CAN happen, but compare it to how much easier it is to tell when a tank or healer is underperforming and you'll see what I was trying to say.

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

[RichardButte]

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

Exactly.

Healers and tanks are held to a standard that DPS players aren't, and that's both generally unfair and also makes the two least played roles played even less, which only drives queue times up further for DPS players.

If being a DPS carried with it the same level of responsibility as a healer or tank, we'd probably see queue times level out for everyone.

[Lord_Zlatan]

Exactly.

Healers and tanks are held to a standard that DPS players aren't, and that's both generally unfair and also makes the two least played roles played even less, which only drives queue times up further for DPS players.

If being a DPS carried with it the same level of responsibility as a healer or tank, we'd probably see queue times level out for everyone.

Until it actually does though.

i haven't been in the endgame scene for a while (long break) but when BCoB Turn 4 and 5 were really hard, bad DPS meant u lost. Flat out. Its sad because its about 5% of content that makes it noticeable.

I play all 3 roles. Tank and Heals i prefer because I KNOW i do a good job at them (above and beyond bare essential reqs). Even though I love DRG (in all FF games) you yourself know if u killed it, but others don't.

[Avatre]

I think the answer is really quite simple. A lot of the encounters the DPS requirements are not essential to passing the task. The tank dies, its obviously noticeable. Healer dies, its obviously noticeable. If DPS is bad but encounter gets cleared...

But when everyone BUT the tank dies, and the fight is still cleared...same stuff happens.

[Lord_Zlatan]

But when everyone BUT the tank dies, and the fight is still cleared...same stuff happens.

Many encounters where the tank is the only one left, it is usually not the tanks fault.

[Cakekizyy]

The person in question did that AFTER seeing how slow stuff was dying. Gear is not a concern, overall performance is. They where just trying to figure out WHY it was so bad. So.. this situation would taken the same course with a DPS meter. Also you did say "never" so you are disagreeing with your own post, maybe an edit is in order.

Your friend was guilty of kick abuse. Letting go till end and kicked ng right before final boss.