Is It Even Possible To Have A New Healer Job?

[Tridus]

In a vacuum, nerfing healing is an excellent way to make healing more engaging. However, it would require players to work together to share in their character's survival. Is that a realistic expectation of the players today?

I don't see why not. It's not changing things such that every mechanic will instantly kill you. It just means it's harder to get you back to full if you take damage, so repeatedly taking avoidable damage is going to increase your odds of dying, and maybe force both healers to heal more often.

Right now, damage dealers are the most popular role. This means that complexity can be introduced to make the classes more engaging to play.

But, healing and tanking are both less popular. It seems that SE's strategy has been to keep these roles less complicated so the roles aren't so intimidating. In addition, do we want more complexity put into roles in which our character survival depends?

If the most popular role is also the one with the most complicated job mechanics, maybe making it simpler isn't the answer to get more people to do the less popular ones?

I mean, it doesn't have to be top level complicated. Tank DPS rotations are more complicated than healer DPS rotations but still not overly complicated. They manage to be that while all the tanking tools are in place at the same time. Tanks doing DPS are often also tanking at the same time, so they're a compliment to the job's primary role (because damage = enmity). Healing is unique and weird in that healers that are playing optimally will spend half (or more) of their time not doing healing at all, but doing DPS with extremely simplistic mechanics. When they are healing, again it's simplistic because things like MP management are barely factors and spell cast durations aren't really factors at all. You can go directly to your big heal, burst heal everyone to full, then go back to DPS.

Compare to other games where you have faster cast smaller heals, slower cast large heals, MP efficient heals, inefficient but high HPS heals, and so on. You need to manage your MP and casts to get out the required healing before more damage comes in without running out. It's more to juggle but also more engaging.

We theoretically have some of those things, but if you look at Cure vs Cure 2, at 70 there's virtually no case when you want to cast Cure. The most valuable resource you have is the GCD, both spells cost exactly the same time, MP is basically irrelevant, and one of them does nearly double the HPS of the other. There's no decision to be made there, except maybe "use Tetra instead and fire off another DPS spell" if Tetra's available.

Ultimately, THAT is the core of the problem. There's no room for a healer that heals especially differently because the only resource that matters is time. It clearly can be done because a lot of other games do it. It would take a rework of how healing works to do it, so we won't be seeing it any time soon. Until then, I don't see how a new healer won't wind up like AST: healing the same as what we already had but with an extra thing added on.

If they intend to keep that system and expect healers will be spending a lot of time DPSing, they should put more effort into it aside from "put up DoT(s) and mash your nuke", which is kinda what it comes down to now.

[era1Ne]

If DPS can have a wide variety, why can't healers? What they do doesn't change but there's a lot of room for different class mechanics.

The game imo has an philosophy that every class has to be able to clear every content and this means that healers have to have a solution for (almost) every situations. Therefore they won't be able to create an slow reggen healer in this game for example, because he wouldn't be able to handle burst dmg like 4 aoe attacks after another and he won't even fit into the game design, because in no fight you need 60% or 100% reggen uptime. Healing in this game happens in burst most of the time. Imo creating different dd classes that still fit into the game design and make sense is easier.

Rift has Chloromancer, which does damage in order to heal, and can push a button to switch from direct tank heals to group heals. I'd totally roll healer again if there was something like that in this game, but not sure what it would be to fit in with the FF lore.

I am not sure about that one to be honest. On one hand, it could help new healers to do dmg and on the other, this class could be a nightmare to balance, because after healing dmg is an huge part in this game and if an class does dmg/heals at the same time, than it could be way to strong, if they aren't very careful with balancing.

[Tridus]

I think this is exactly what's happening. It all boils down to that 2.5sec GCD making it prohibitively difficult to change the way healing functions.

...Unless they started adding oGCD healing abilities with super short CDs that either apply a small HoT or heal a small amount (and that's a horrible idea because of how overloaded most classes are with oGCD abilities and how hard of a time they have with latency already...).

I kind of wonder what would happen if they went the other way and made AoE and big heals slower. Medica II as a 5 second cast, for example, while Medica stays at 2.5 but only heals for 1/3 of Medica II. A fast and big heal? So resource expensive that it's an emergency recovery button and not something you can just fall back on constantly.

Without shortening the GCD for healers across the board, they can't really go faster for the reason you pointed out. But they can go in the other direction.

[era1Ne]

So, with all these things taken into account, is there room for another healing class? You all know my opinion; but, there have been some interesting ideas proposed in this thread. For example, I'd like to hear more about how a melee range healer would work.

I want an melee healer like the dancer for example. I am just not sure, how the class will play and what its unique feature outside of being melee will/can be.

I think they can add a new healer, the issue they have is that it really needs to fit into one of the two pigeonholes we have currently. How it gets there is fair game really, IMHO SE do have room to put in either a disc priest or melee style healer to compete better with the SCH slot.<3

They could try to balance healer pairs instead of healers themselves. Like WHM/Sch vs Ast/healer 4 working best together. I am not sure, if i would like that, tho, because some people will quickly force you to switch to a different healer, if the healer in their static is whm or ast in this case. Don't get me wrong, i don't mind playing a different healer for the team, but i don't think the community would really like it that much and i can understand that. For me it is really difficult to think about a perfect solution for the balance issue 4 healers could bring, although i believe there is place for a 4th healer and personally i want one, just to learn a class from the start in my favorite role again

Yes there is plenty of room to make other healers, one just needs a bit of imagination. I wont get into naming FF classes just pointing out mechanics (gimmicks) from other games that could be utilized:

6 ideas off the top of my head are:

I really like those ideas for healers and they could work in this game, while feeling different enough compared to the healers we currently have.

* A turret/totem healer, places down nodes that have buff and healing effects, can link nodes for greater effect.

* A healer that uses a mechanic not that much different than ninja, they combine glyphs or symbols to create different healing effects.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I think this is exactly what's happening. It all boils down to that 2.5sec GCD making it prohibitively difficult to change the way healing functions.

...Unless they started adding oGCD healing abilities with super short CDs that either apply a small HoT or heal a small amount (and that's a horrible idea because of how overloaded most classes are with oGCD abilities and how hard of a time they have with latency already...).

FWIW, I shelved my AST because I found healing so incredibly boring and leveled MCH (which is crippled by even a small amount of latency, so now I'm leveling RDM) because I wanted to play something that was actually engaging.

Tanking and DPS are both engaging enough to be enjoyable for me, but even AST with its card buffs wasn't enough to keep me from nearly falling asleep at the keyboard.

Maybe if healers had more interesting DPS rotations, or did something like recover mana through a damage rotation, but as it stands it's just "Is someone injured? If not, DoT and press your damaging spell until someone is."

There's "uncomplicated" and then there's "Zzzzzzzzz...".

I'm jealous! I've just started playing AST and I tell you there's times in PotD where I feel like I'm barely holding on due to the complexity of the job.

I don't see why not. It's not changing things such that every mechanic will instantly kill you. It just means it's harder to get you back to full if you take damage, so repeatedly taking avoidable damage is going to increase your odds of dying, and maybe force both healers to heal more often.



If the most popular role is also the one with the most complicated job mechanics, maybe making it simpler isn't the answer to get more people to do the less popular ones?

I mean, it doesn't have to be top level complicated. Tank DPS rotations are more complicated than healer DPS rotations but still not overly complicated. They manage to be that while all the tanking tools are in place at the same time. Tanks doing DPS are often also tanking at the same time, so they're a compliment to the job's primary role (because damage = enmity). Healing is unique and weird in that healers that are playing optimally will spend half (or more) of their time not doing healing at all, but doing DPS with extremely simplistic mechanics. When they are healing, again it's simplistic because things like MP management are barely factors and spell cast durations aren't really factors at all. You can go directly to your big heal, burst heal everyone to full, then go back to DPS.

Compare to other games where you have faster cast smaller heals, slower cast large heals, MP efficient heals, inefficient but high HPS heals, and so on. You need to manage your MP and casts to get out the required healing before more damage comes in without running out. It's more to juggle but also more engaging.

We theoretically have some of those things, but if you look at Cure vs Cure 2, at 70 there's virtually no case when you want to cast Cure. The most valuable resource you have is the GCD, both spells cost exactly the same time, MP is basically irrelevant, and one of them does nearly double the HPS of the other. There's no decision to be made there, except maybe "use Tetra instead and fire off another DPS spell" if Tetra's available.

*nods* I enjoyed healing in Cataclysm because it was more engaging. Pushing one spell every few seconds to heal someone to full is too simple. I also agree complexity could be put into the damage dealing side of healing to make it more engaging.

Furthermore, I feel SE messed up with the Lily mechanic. Instead of being about faster cooldowns and extra shields, it should have been about mana management. That would have made Cure I worth casting at level 70.

[Ametrine]

I know I'm personally hopeful the next healer is GEO, but the in game hints about the job do lend to it being WHM with a gimmick, or possibly an alt to AST's card system.

Basically, AOE effects similar to bard songs, or a selection of "zone" skills, such as Sacred Soil or Shadow Flare. Essentially, the job would be normal on the healing side (with needed bursts), but be heavily focussed on different environmental skills.

Technically, Dancer could also be a healing version of bard, perhaps with DPS skills that better suit melee players.


But, yeah, I agree that we're now in a corner where new healers will need a gimmick to be added verses being a whole new methodology of healing. Even AST suffers from that, but AST works great now. So, I'm hopeful.

[Ametrine]

.I am not sure about that one to be honest. On one hand, it could help new healers to do dmg and on the other, this class could be a nightmare to balance, because after healing dmg is an huge part in this game and if an class does dmg/heals at the same time, than it could be way to strong, if they aren't very careful with balancing.

Cleric Stance, the new job for 5.0.

[RichardButte]

I'm jealous! I've just started playing AST and I tell you there's times in PotD where I feel like I'm barely holding on due to the complexity of the job.

I hope you never hit the same boredom wall I did, but I reached a point where I knew the cards and their priorities so well that it became nearly automatic and it just became tedious.

I wish healing rotations were a thing in this game. Satisfying rotations don't NEED to be reserved for DPS but it just winds up that way in XIV... :\

[era1Ne]

Cleric Stance, the new job for 5.0.

You probably meant this as a joke, but i would find it funny (not necessarly a good idea xD), if they add an class, which can decide of the heal skill does dmg or heals at least a bit similar how cleric worked. Instead of switching mind/int stat, they switch the effect of the skill during the fight.

Technically, Dancer could also be a healing version of bard, perhaps with DPS skills that better suit melee players.

I will scream, if they announce dancer. I want an melee healer so bad

But, yeah, I agree that we're now in a corner where new healers will need a gimmick to be added verses being a whole new methodology of healing. Even AST suffers from that, but AST works great now. So, I'm hopeful.

I hope they can pull something great and suprising off

[Ametrine]

A healer with a stance change mechanic could work, but we'd need to be able to function well in each stance, so it couldn't be a Cleric Stance scenario, where you buff one stat and severely gimp another. You'd still need your key bursts and AoEs in all stances, and if that's the case, the gimmick is a bit useless.

So, I think a class that rotates through stances would better as a DPS.

Further, a healer that fights in Melee is probably the next step. RDM shows it's now possible for a class to work at both short and long ranges. So, let's say, dancer fights with daggers, but has "dances" that act straight up like spells do.

It's not as fancy as some other concepts, but it would give us dancer.