New Job idea for 5.0 Necromancer

[Synrin]

It's also about societies outside of the game as well, as this game is sold in places where most elements associated with the necromancer theme would be either banned or extremely limited.

Just like the imperials are as a race, but a good tabboo is a good tabboo.

[Balipu]

It's also about societies outside of the game as well, as this game is sold in places where most elements associated with the necromancer theme would be either banned or extremely limited.

For example? I know China has major problems in this regard, but Blizzard had no problem releasing Wrath of the Lich King globally. Plus I already posted two ways to work around the "Necromancy is evil" problem

So healing-via-damage in this game would considered as a supplementary healing system, or a means of healing that can take place while the healer is doing something else (i.e. HoTs, faerie heals). Think of it like a White Mage doing damage while Medica II and Regen provide healing, except that Medica II tick would be directly caused by a tick from an Aero spell and a cast of a Stone spell would heal the tank for about as much as a Regen tick. Something along those lines.

Some spells could work like that, but it would end up with the problem that came up earlier. What would happen if there are no enemies to attack? It is easier to use damage to generate a resource you can use whenever you need and just have simpler spells that use mana to heal someone with your health, replenish your health by draining life from the enemy or taking a small ammount of health from every party member and transferring it to your target.

Maybe it would be easier with a list of abilities. Will get around to doing it tomorrow.

[Kazrah]

-edit from quoting me-

So first off, saying "China has major problems in this regard" is kinda like saying "the ocean is really blue". By the time Chinese players were able to get their hands on WotLK, Cata was right around the corner for everyone else, and that was only after the game had been shut down for months. Not really something you want to do to a major player audience, and China has typically fit that bill for other online games sold there.

Even right now in this game, any depicts of what would be considered "undead" almost rarely show any bone, usually looking like recolored normal characters, and any exceptions (save for maybe the occasional random spot in PotD) were done in ARR, which released a year after it came out everywhere else (likely due to censorship among other things).

Now I never stated the "necromancy is evil" problem as far as it goes in the game. Yeah, turning human remains into playthings isn't exactly a laudable action by any stretch of the imagination, which was one of the reasons why when I made my Reaper job concept for this game, I made it revolve around the use of wraiths or spirits and tried to bring it as close to feeling like the stereotypical necromancer without using anything that could run into that issue (the other reason being that I was trying to make it not look like what we see in the Weeping City of Mhach).

Some spells could work like that, but it would end up with the problem that came up earlier. What would happen if there are no enemies to attack? It is easier to use damage to generate a resource you can use whenever you need and just have simpler spells that use mana to heal someone with your health, replenish your health by draining life from the enemy or taking a small ammount of health from every party member and transferring it to your target.

So this is why I called it the supplementary healing system: because it would never be the primary healing kit. Every healer right now runs the same basic healing toolkit:

Basic effective heal (Cure, Physick, Benefic)
Large effective heal (Cure II, Adloquium, Benefic II)
AoE heal (Medica, Indomitability, Helios)
Main supplementary heal (Regen, SCH fairy, Aspected Benefic)
AoE supplementary heal (Medica II, Succor, Aspected Helios)
Burst heal (Tetragrammaton, Lustrate, Essential Dignity)
Ground effect (Asylum, Sacred Soil, Collective Unconscious)

Again, supplementary healing is just what provides additional healing effect while the healer can do other things, and is never intended to be the primary source of healing, hence why a healing-via-damage system would be able to work in this fashion--it just wouldn't be the primary source of healing.

Now with the martyr healing you're suggesting, it's not a bad concept, but it does require additional considerations depending on whether or not it's either ingrained into the primary healing system or if it's just a supplementary system in the form of a couple of spells or something an ability that would affect all heals. Either way, it requires having extra HP for added wiggle room on heals, and nearly a tank level of health if it was their primary healing system. Maybe some sort of personal cooldown heal to offset the same problem that the "draining life" trick runs into that you brought up in regard to healing-via-damage systems. Stealing any health from other players for a heal would probably be the only thing I'd give a flat "no" to.

Overall, the job concept you bring up here isn't one I condone. There just a lot of things that have to be considered with a necromancer-esque, and I've seen enough people showcasing concepts for it that give little to no regard for them (and sometimes for the very game they're playing).

[Risvertasashi]

So healing-via-damage in this game would considered as a supplementary healing system, or a means of healing that can take place while the healer is doing something else (i.e. HoTs, faerie heals). Think of it like a White Mage doing damage while Medica II and Regen provide healing, except that Medica II tick would be directly caused by a tick from an Aero spell and a cast of a Stone spell would heal the tank for about as much as a Regen tick. Something along those lines.

That sounds like a decent way to do it.

============

And re: nacromance is taboo! posts
So is white magic
So is black magic
So is summoning
something something dark knights, rogues, ninjas

If SE wanted to do this concept, lore isn't really the greatest of their worries.

[Kazrah]

And re: nacromance is taboo! posts

White Magic is only taboo among the Padjal, who believe it to corrupt the souls of man.
Summoning arts are only vaguely taboo for their association to primals, and that taboo has decreased slightly with the Stormblood job questline.
Dark Knights aren't really that taboo just because of how unknown they are compared to other jobs with any degree of taboo.
Rogues, although frowned upon, aren't really taboo.
Ninjas are only taboo for whoever they stand opposed to, which is less taboo and more animosity.

The only really universally "taboo" job right now is Black Mage due to its association with the Voidsent. The only thing more taboo than Black Magic is its advanced form: Necromancy. So yes, lore isn't their greatest worry, but still needs to be taken into heavier consideration.

[JunseiKei]

~snip~

My take away is this:

- Necromancy is super taboo.
- Once something is dead, it's dead, even in Eorzea. Resurrection, Raise, Ascend, etc, are game mechanics and not lore ones (ever wonder why you can't Phoenix Down Aerith? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. This is reoccurring thing in Final Fantasy as a whole, though it does not apply to all).
- People that practice necromancy are considered akin to crimes against nature, to the point that I think we'd have an easier time dealing with 100 Nidhoggs each waging war on Ishgard once more than changing people's view on manipulation on their [possible] loved ones.
- Most bodies are dealt with immediately to prevent voidsent from occupying them. We're more likely to have "void mages" and I doubt they wouldn't be hunted down or largely shunned.
- Ascians seem like "void mages" - more so than black mages as it seems it was the Ascians that made voidsent in the first place for black magic users to manipulate (Mhach).

A fair point. But seeing as a Dark Knight your teacher is a hallucination born of your frustration with other people, you kinda use your own moral compass.
Hell it could be a valuable lesson that the use of the ability determines it evilness rather than the source.

Considering it was said that Dark Knight's concept was heavily inspired by Berserk, Fran is an outside force trying to influence your choices to be selfish, as with Guts and Beast of Darkness. Less on your own frustrations, being ever the selfless hero.

White Magic is only taboo among the Padjal, who believe it to corrupt the souls of man.
Summoning arts are only vaguely taboo for their association to primals, and that taboo has decreased slightly with the Stormblood job questline.
Dark Knights aren't really that taboo just because of how unknown they are compared to other jobs with any degree of taboo.
Rogues, although frowned upon, aren't really taboo.
Ninjas are only taboo for whoever they stand opposed to, which is less taboo and more animosity.

The only really universally "taboo" job right now is Black Mage due to its association with the Voidsent. The only thing more taboo than Black Magic is its advanced form: Necromancy. So yes, lore isn't their greatest worry, but still needs to be taken into heavier consideration.

White Magic is not taboo to the Padjals; they are the guardians of white magic because it depletes the land of aether. They don't want another misuse of it, like Amdapor and the resulting calamity from the War of the Magi. Lore wise, only the Padjal may wield white magic; we're only allowed because of being A-Towa-Cant's successor.

Summoning is an Allagan creation, and leading up to the fall of the empire, summoners were hunted down and the knowledge was largely lost along with much of the Allagan empire. It was declared to be taboo immediately during and after the collapse of the empire and all works regarding the practice were destroyed if found.

Dark Knights just seem to be looked down upon by Ishgard and the Holy See because it was a knight that took sword against one of their members to protect innocents. Those loyal to the church would call it taboo.

Rogues, as we learn from the story line, keep peace and order in Limsa Lominsa from the shadows.

Ninjas don't really seem to be taboo, from what I can tell? Just what comes with the job, I'd imagine (stealth, speed, secrecy and all that jazz). Their whole point seems to be discreet, much like rogues mentioned above. The only ones I'd think of that would have issues with ninjas would be Doma (since it was ninjas that betrayed them), but then there's another ninja named Yugiri that is a retainer for the prince of Doma.

[Vhailor]

Looking at the new threads for Blue mage and Legate and whatever popping up I figured it is time to open the job speculation season. Who knows? I might even give a few ideas to the devs and the'll hire me for 6.0

I like the idea, but I don't think it fits thematically with FFXIV. The game's a bit too bright and cheerful for a Necromancer to fit in, in my estimation.

Personally I'd rather see SE pull a Chains of Promathia with the next expansion, and not release any new jobs at all. Spend the time they'd normally put into balancing and developing the new jobs into giving us some really deep content and polishing up the significant pile of content that could be relevant and entertaining if only someone went back with the benefit of hindsight. Give us some ability boosts a la Merit Points or certain types of gear (they could always balance content around the base, non-augmented abilities). Adding a couple of new jobs on top of a pile of shallow content isn't going to really get me excited, speaking personally.

[Balipu]

when I made my Reaper job concept for this game, I made it revolve around the use of wraiths or spirits

And if you notice I also don't plan to use any kind of reanimated corpses. Hell it doesn't even need to be called a Necromancer. There's just simply no previous FF job that could fit the concept of moving around health like that.



Now with the martyr healing you're suggesting, it's not a bad concept, but it does require additional considerations depending on whether or not it's either ingrained into the primary healing system or if it's just a supplementary system in the form of a couple of spells or something an ability that would affect all heals. Either way, it requires having extra HP for added wiggle room on heals, and nearly a tank level of health if it was their primary healing system.

Thanks for the feedback. It really helps with my work. Two things:

- The use health for healing thing will not be the primary source. The primary will be the healing you do by using the resource you build up by damaging/debuffing the enemy.

- It will not be a direct transfer. You will simply use your health point as a resource. So for example you use 50 health points for a spell with a cure potencty of saaaay 250

Personally I'd rather see SE pull a Chains of Promathia with the next expansion, and not release any new jobs at all. Spend the time they'd normally put into balancing and developing the new jobs into giving us some really deep content and polishing up the significant pile of content that could be relevant and entertaining if only someone went back with the benefit of hindsight. Give us some ability boosts a la Merit Points or certain types of gear (they could always balance content around the base, non-augmented abilities). Adding a couple of new jobs on top of a pile of shallow content isn't going to really get me excited, speaking personally.

The way I see it, tanks and healers really want some new toys after not getting anything in Stormblood. But we can't be sure what the future brings.

[JunseiKei]

Personally I'd rather see SE pull a Chains of Promathia with the next expansion, and not release any new jobs at all.

I actually think the same thing; polish up balance between the existing classes a bit more. Right now, the "meta" (eyeroll) groupings for DPS are NIN, DRG, MCH, and BRD (and maybe SMN). Their contribution to raid DPS is just that much superior that other jobs can be a pain to find a place in farm parties (or even a static to begin with; not much of a choice of 15 jobs when the community forces you into 8 or 9 of them). This should not happen, ideally. Granted, it's a fault on the players and the community to taking it to such measures (I am not getting into the whole it's their party, people can choose what and who they want to run with), given that the game is balanced around any group composition consisting of no more than one of any given job can clear current content. I think SE did a pretty good job with tanks and healers this expansion.

[Derio]

Honestly I think dancer will be the next healer due to its popularity and how people were extremely disappointed that it was not the new healer for stormblood prior to the announcement of the 2 dps jobs.

But we will find out in november.