Just realized something: FFXIV is a terrible DPS player's DREAM come true...

[Krotoan]

This was said so long ago though, can we even really say it's true anymore? If healers aren't expected to dps, than I'm wondering what level of performance SE is is expecting out of the dps and tanks. If each healer is doing 1200 dps each, which is on the lower end of "expected" healer damage, then the other roles would have to pump out another 400 dps EACH to make up for that. That's a lot in my opinion.

I'm reasonably sure no DF party has ever failed because of that lack of DPS. like.. 3 more minutes tops on the run.

[Venoshock]

20% he says =(

It kind of makes me a little sad there isn't some form of fun dungeon ranking TBH as it'd be interesting to see just how hard people managed to push in the current dungeons. I personally hit a wall at 3.8k DPS across the dungeon regardless of if the group was fast or slow.

lord have mercy.... those numbers were acceptable in midas...100 ilevels ago. My condolences

[RichardButte]

I'm reasonably sure no DF party has ever failed because of that lack of DPS. like.. 3 more minutes tops on the run.

I'm sure it's higher than you'd think when you factor in healers going OOM because the DPS took too long to kill a boss or two.

Low DPS + people standing in the bad = recipe for an OOM healer and a wipe.

[basketofseals]

I'm reasonably sure no DF party has ever failed because of that lack of DPS. like.. 3 more minutes tops on the run.

I mean they were talking about ACTUAL raids. This point I believe was brought up during BCoB when players were using healer dps to exceed the gear expectations that the devs had.

The stance has clearly changed, because unless they're expecting way more out of the average player than even I am(and let's be honest, healing makes you a cynical son of a gun) if they really expect groups to make dps checks without added healer damage.

[Ameela]

I'm reasonably sure no DF party has ever failed because of that lack of DPS. like.. 3 more minutes tops on the run.

Not fail but poor DPS can cause wipes on big pulls due to tanks running out of CDs and/or healers running out of MP.
It can also cause 30-40 minute runs of dungeons (which has happened to me) and that's just not pleasant for anyone.

[Aomine1992]

Well the opposite can be said as well you can be a great dps with a bad one and both get blamed for the slow run...while the healer is watching Netflix and the tank is using one CD and not using their aoes...

More often than not both healers and tanks get called out over bad dps but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen....

But these kind of threads will always be around welcome to the world of MMO nothing is new here lol

[Balipu]

This was said so long ago though, can we even really say it's true anymore? .

Fair point. I did say that I consider this true only in the areas where I play. I can't speak for savage raids. Besides, while the holy trinity is still necessary as we still need three roles fulfilled in group PVE content, the lines are blurry. Tanks fo course DPS cause they use attacks to build enmity. They also (ideally) use their skills to mitigate damage and not make healing them a living hell. DPS sometimes heal and even rez when they can (I do that very frequently in trials as a red mage). Plus they sometimes manage emnity (ninja in particular). Healer DPS is just the one with the most attention. Everyone does everything but they all have that one thing they are better at than the other two roles.

[Tridus]

Well the opposite can be said as well you can be a great dps with a bad one and both get blamed for the slow run...while the healer is watching Netflix and the tank is using one CD and not using their aoes...

Parser fixes that real fast. No healer doing zero DPS has any right to complain about the speed of a run.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm reasonably sure no DF party has ever failed because of that lack of DPS. like.. 3 more minutes tops on the run.

Actually, it can easily be well over ten. I have see Kugane Castle runs range from 10-12 minutes to well over twenty just based on the DPS, especially it the actual damage dealers refuse to AoE.

[Ameela]

...while the healer is watching Netflix and the tank is using one CD and not using their aoes...

While I do think healers and tanks should DPS as much as possible I also think this provides a scapegoat for bad DPS players.
If the run is going slowly and the healer isn't DPSing then it doesn't matter what the actual DPS players are doing, it's obviously the healer's fault for not DPSing, nevermind the fact that literally the only thing DPS need to do in a run is, you know, DPS.
If I'm tanking I guess I'll just start not grabbing one of the mobs, I mean I'm already tanking the other ones what does it matter if one of them is attacking other people? I'm not criticising the DPS for not doing their job right why do they have any right to criticise me?