ARR/Heavensward Fishing RNG could use a nerf.

[MistakeNot]

No. Keep it as it is. As someone who spent dozens of hours to 100% complete the fishing log, I'm very proud of it and don't want that feeling taken away by nerfs. Big Fishing should remain the true end-game.

Completing the fishing log is mainly a matter of patience and luck. Very little skill is involved.
Satisfying to complete it certainly, but something to be proud of?

[Rufalus]

I had all the fish up until patch 3.4, been slacking since then, but I don't really mind if they go back and nerf some of the worst ones just gently, an additional weather type that is valid to catch them or something. There are a couple which have such rare combinations of conditions to obtain that people thought the fish didn't exist or were bugged for quite a while lol, and even knowing the conditions a person might not have the catch window align with their sleep/work schedule for months. But it's also not a big deal if left unchanged since they reward nothing and are required for nothing which is arguably another issue.

[Alleo]

(my Emphasis)


b) That's insufficient reason to take the challenge out of content that others are enjoying .

So huge layers of RNG are a challenge...welp lets have the next savage tier full of it. Instead of partly getting better with more gear you will only clear this fight if RNG shines on you.

Honestly...RNG is not a challenge..its just a artifical wall that makes the content last longer without it feeling really great for a lot of people..I never have met someone ingame that likes fishing..most just complain about the time and RNG it takes so they just let it go. IMO fun would be if you need to hit certain buttons (kinda like quicktime events) to get a certain fish or raise its chance..that would be skill..sitting there and hopeing that the fish even gets on the hook is not a challenge..its just pure luck..and if you dont have it you might not ever get the fish..while someone else got it on their first try..how is that fun? How is that even fair? Why am I even getting more gear on it if that does not change anything for the old ones?

Fishing is not required to complete any content other than fishing. You don't need it to progress the MSQ, unlock a 24-man raid or 8-man trial, etc. You are correct, not everyone has the time to sink into it, but it is a pass-time. This is an activity that is not really meant to be completed in a matter of days or weeks. Another thing you might want to consider is it's not like the devs add fish every patch. The log is finite, and once you catch a big fish, there is next to no reason to go after it again.

Just because its not needed to complete other content does not imo mean that it should be that way. I mean what content do you truly need in this game? Story seems to be the main focus in this MMO so anything other than story quests are not necessary to complete the game. Savage, PVP and other stuff is a side activity, yet those are still changed depending on feedback..and those are finite too.

Also a change with the RNG would not just suddenly make it really easy. You would still need all the other parts in catching the fish. And I did give some examples how to change it up a bit and yet still make it not that easy..give scrolls to someone that is lvl 70 which takes time if you dont mass level it all the time..give us a scroll for each region so that people need to farm for those scrolls if they want higher luck to catch it. This way you can still get it the old way but others who are not lucky right now will also stand a chance..I cant honestly think about any kind of side content in this game that needs so much luck to complete..someone can fish all day for weeks and still not see it. How is that fine? How is that fun? And how is that a challenge?

Would that be fine if it was in other content? That some groups would get horrible luck and never be able to beat savage? I mean savage is also not necessary for the main part of the game.

[Solarra]

So huge layers of RNG are a challenge...

In Fishing, yes. Because there is no skill in Fishing. Take the RNG out of fishing and you have nothing left.
Not addressing the 'Savage' stuff you wrote because it's a straw-man.

Don't misunderstand me. I absolutely love the changes they have made to fishing in SB. I have over half an inventory-slot full of ARR baits and lures right now and I am so happy they stopped that nonsense in HW and SB.
I'd also support the idea of changing the weather chains for some ARR fish to simply being the right weather if it didn't take up too much time and resources.
And the HW fishing hole where you can get the 'wrong' Fish-Eyes buff is something I hope they never repeat, though I'm not sure how that could be changed.

Apart from pointing out that the OP's profits are going to dip sharply if the fish he wants to desynth become easy to catch, my point was that this is old content and specifically designed to appeal to a niche audience. It isn't for everyone but the players who do like this sort of content are the type that will stay subbed during content droughts to work on collections and achievements. They aren't a majority but they are a valuable part of the MMO player-base and most established games cater to them (further info in this video: Extra Credits - Player types in MMOs ).

I do think the original difficulty in ARR was too high for most people, but it has been nerfed considerably by faster GP regen and Patience II. I just think it would be a waste of resources to tinker with ARR and HW fishing further.

[Gemina]

Just because its not needed to complete other content does not imo mean that it should be that way. I mean what content do you truly need in this game?

Well, it's going to be any content that is required to achieve your goals. But you're missing the point. What I'm getting at is fishing is its own thing, not tied to anything else in the game. Any goal you have in this game other than fishing related, can be accomplished without ever picking up a fishing rod. The whole reason why I bring this is up, is because if fishing is not fun, unrewarding, and not bringing you any enjoyment, then don't do it. Why are you torturing yourself?

Story seems to be the main focus in this MMO so anything other than story quests are not necessary to complete the game. Savage, PVP and other stuff is a side activity, yet those are still changed depending on feedback..and those are finite too.

When you look at all the content as a whole, not everything is changed. A lot of feedback across all venues of the game go unanswered. When changes are made based on the feedback, the community is typically united about the issue. Something like this however, where the views are divided is likely going to remain the same because all SE can do is shift the dissatisfaction from one group of players to another. Why allocate resources for that kind of a result? To me, that doesn't make sense.

Combat content is finite as well, but new content is released each patch, and this is coupled with incentives to rerun the content. Anglers have to wait much longer for new fish to be added to catch, and there is next to no incentive to go after a fish you've already caught unless it can be desynthed, crafted, sold, or put into a tank. However, none of these are as rewarding as the initial catch.

Also a change with the RNG would not just suddenly make it really easy. You would still need all the other parts in catching the fish...

RNG is the only thing that brings an element of difficulty to fishing, so by adjusting the RNG on the gathering rate of fish, you can make it more or less difficult. It is a technical absolute. It's also made easier by adding in abilities that strip away some of the RNG layers.

It almost seems like these abilities are developed based on the headaches caused by the previous expansion: HW brought in Patience and hooksets to assist with the elusive HQ catches of ARR, and Patience 2 to also increase the chance of hooking bigger fish, which helps when both types pursue the same bait. SB brought Mooch 2 and Double Hook, which made requiring multiple catches for Fisher's Intuition for both ARR and HW MUCH easier to trigger.

I cant honestly think about any kind of side content in this game that needs so much luck to complete..someone can fish all day for weeks and still not see it. How is that fine? How is that fun? And how is that a challenge?

I can't either. It's fishing. It isn't even about luck. Anyone with enough time and patience can complete the log. Someone lucky i.e. RNG is in their favor will complete it faster than the person less fortunate. There is another requirement though in order to complete the log: You have to find something about it that you enjoy. It's how anybody completes anything in this game. Barring some kind of completionist mentality, they do the stuff they enjoy and find rewarding, and stay away from the stuff they don't.

I think those who are like-minded to myself, aren't even really out to complete the log. We simply like the mini-game that is fishing and enjoy trying to get through all those walls of RNG. There are many goals tied to fishing if you choose to pursue them, and clearing the log is just one of them. There are titles, record keeping, minions gained from FSH retainer, the Blessed rod, PlayStation trophies, and so forth.

Would that be fine if it was in other content?

No, of course not. Not in the same way at least, but you do know that RNG is heavily involved in combat content as well, correct? Every number you see bouncing around the combat field is all RNG mate.

[Deceptus]

What are the points of Gathering/Perception if they don't matter to certain fish catch rates?

Like would be like saying no matter how well you were geared, no matter how well you prepared, Boss X is going to kill you 90% of the time with one attack. But hey, that one time you got through that attack was worth it right? /s

There is nothing wrong with calling out bad gameplay design, and certain aspects of fishing simply aren't fun.

[XiXiQ]

They need to do something about the tiny windows. tiny FE windows, tiny intuition windows, and 2 ET hour time windows. I don't want to be "playing the game" for 2 minutes, then wait half an hour or an hour for an mere opportunity to play for another 2 minutes.

[Alleo]

Well, it's going to be any content that is required to achieve your goals. But you're missing the point. What I'm getting at is fishing is its own thing, not tied to anything else in the game. Any goal you have in this game other than fishing related, can be accomplished without ever picking up a fishing rod. The whole reason why I bring this is up, is because if fishing is not fun, unrewarding, and not bringing you any enjoyment, then don't do it. Why are you torturing yourself?

Well I am not torturing myself with it that much. I do it a bit when I feel bored of other stuff. A the same time I just want any part of the game to feel fun so thats the reason I post in this thread. I know of no single person ingame that enjoys fishing which is sad because in other MMOs this was always a nice and relaxing side action. And there were games where it was even fun because you had to do more than throwing out the rod and hope for RNG. Because right now this is the only part of this fishing..

And yes its luck. How can you say its not? When you have two people with the complete same equipment at the same time with the same actions..well one can catch it and one not. That is pure luck. There is no skill involved other than maybe knowing where to get it. And it might be that somewhere along the way you will complete it but only if RNG likes you..so theoretically you might also never finish it if RNG is not on your side. So yes luck is involved in this.

The RNG in combat is still nothing compared to this. You could say that the RNG is more like the one with the high diadem weapon. x) Where you first need luck to have the weather, luck to defeat the boss, luck to be the one that gets the weapon, luck to have it be the weapon you need with good stats..and as a consequence nobody wants to truly do diadem because its not worth it. And the same can be said with fishing. There might be some that do it but for the majority its just not fun and maybe a bit of a change there might make it more fun for more people. And with my examples (the scrolls) you could still hit your head against the wall with the RNG or you could be rewarded for leveling and gearing up your job and getting currency with it and thus might make it a bit easier. Heck they could say that these scrolls are only for the ARR fishes because they are already quite old content.

[Raldo]

Here's the thing, you hooked him NINE times. This tells me you were using Patience/Patience 2 and hooksets to give you more opportunities in the given window. Take those abilities away, and you might not even get an opportunity to catch him. That is how it was before those abilities were introduced, and Namitaro was a hated ARR fish prior to HW because not only did you have to catch Giant Takitaro, he needed to be HQ as well. Now, the only thing that makes Namitaro difficult IS the catch rate. And you want this reduced also?

If I was a dev, I would have actually decreased the catch rate so he can still live up to the name "Legendary Fish."

Late in replying to this, but ... what? Are you thinking of a different fish? Patience and Patience 2 are definitely great and all, but HQ is irrelevant when catching the Namitaro, and I'm relatively certain that it has always been that way (it's certainly not mentioned in any of the guides I looked up). There's no mooching involved with this fish. The only skill useful for this fish is Chum, which allows you to get 3~4 casts in the 1-minute intuition window, instead of the original 2~3.

Also, while I did indeed say that I hooked it nine times, I never mentioned the number of windows that I fished for it in, so you're really jumping to conclusions. It took me roughly fifteen thunder/thunderstorm windows (and that's without double-counting consecutive windows).

What are the points of Gathering/Perception if they don't matter to certain fish catch rates?

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[New_Game_Plus]

What are the points of Gathering/Perception if they don't matter to certain fish catch rates?

Like would be like saying no matter how well you were geared, no matter how well you prepared, Boss X is going to kill you 90% of the time with one attack. But hey, that one time you got through that attack was worth it right? /s

There is nothing wrong with calling out bad gameplay design, and certain aspects of fishing simply aren't fun.

Pretty much this. Even without patience in level 70 ala gear I'm still losing big fish.