Criticism on Stormblood's Monk

[LeeraSorlan]

My issues with monk arent even damage related anyway, my issues with monk arent even related to the useless skills weve gotten, no. moreso its related to the one of two useful skills we DID get. Riddle of fire.

I hate it, its a garbage skill and it ruins the feeling of a monk.


in my opinion How To Fix Monk - Remove riddle of fire. done.

[Namingwayfinder]

See, Phireblast, the thing is, Warriors have higher potency on the last attack in their enmity combo, Butcher's Block. Butcher's Block is 10 potency stronger than both Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, which is why you see Warriors use it in a rotation, even as offtanks. Paladin and Dark Knight however, you are correct about with enmity combos lowering their overall dps. Blanket statements like, "More enmity combos from tanks lower dps" can be wrong, and I suggest you tell whoever told you this that they may want to do their research.

[LeeraSorlan]

See, Phireblast, the thing is, Warriors have higher potency on the last attack in their enmity combo, Butcher's Block. Butcher's Block is 10 potency stronger than both Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, which is why you see Warriors use it in a rotation, even as offtanks. Paladin and Dark Knight however, you are correct about with enmity combos lowering their overall dps. Blanket statements like, "More enmity combos from tanks lower dps" can be wrong, and I suggest you tell whoever told you this that they may want to do their research.

you dont use butchers block as OT anymore, ever. u lose 10 rage everytime u dont path.

[SpeckledBurd]

you dont use butchers block as OT anymore, ever. u lose 10 rage everytime u dont path.

And 10 of Warriors gauge is functionally 100 potency from Fell Cleave.

[Shurrikhan]

See, Phireblast, the thing is, Warriors have higher potency on the last attack in their enmity combo, Butcher's Block. Butcher's Block is 10 potency stronger than both Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, which is why you see Warriors use it in a rotation, even as offtanks. Paladin and Dark Knight however, you are correct about with enmity combos lowering their overall dps. Blanket statements like, "More enmity combos from tanks lower dps" can be wrong, and I suggest you tell whoever told you this that they may want to do their research.

Path is up to a 90 (Zerk-IR effective 140) potency gain over Butcher's Block via the additional Beast Gauge generated.

[Namingwayfinder]

you dont use butchers block as OT anymore, ever. u lose 10 rage everytime u dont path.

I do believe Phireblast was talking about main tanking, but since neither of us know exactly whether it was a main tank or off tank (despite the heavy implication that since SAM does more threat than diversion can cover, said tanks having to use more enmity combos would most likely be the main tanks, as tank switches often happen with Provoke/Shirk combo from both tanks, nullifying the need of the offtank to even use enmity combos to grab aggro after a tank swap), I think we can agree that yes, as an OT you really shouldn't be using Butcher's Block, at least maybe not unless your MT doesn't have shirk and a tank swap is coming up.

And 10 of Warriors gauge is functionally 100 potency from Fell Cleave.

Yes, I understand how the math behind Beast Gauge generation works in equivalence to potency, I've browsed the FF14 Reddit page and seen the math for myself, as well as practiced on dummies and on Stone, Sky, Sea challenges. Frankly, for anyone who's played WAR since ARR like me, this is inherently understood by simply playing the class while trying to maximise DPS. While I appreciate the want to help people understand min/maxer mindset and promote highest quality play from other players, I don't remember saying anywhere that Butcher's Block was the end all be all combo ender because it has 10 higher potency.

Path is up to a 90 (Zerk-IR effective 140) potency gain over Butcher's Block via the additional Beast Gauge generated.

Refer to the above quote. Once again, nowhere did I say I was the authority on WAR and my opinion is the only right one. In the last two or so months I have met many players though, at least in my datacenter, that like to make very generalized statements based off of limited experience, and I would like that to stop, as many new players (with the leaf next to their name and everything) that they spout nonsense to believe it right off the bat and never look for themselves, which I dislike greatly due to the fact it promotes both ignorance in the playerbase and is factually incorrect.


EDIT: Yes I know eventually the new players would find out for themselves, but I've had a lot of the new players in my FC bullied in level 50/60 dungeons for staying in tank stance and using enmity combos when they are brand new to the dungeon and not confident of their tanking and that really rankles me to see the discouraged from tanking when tanks aren't the most prolific class, and more tanks only make everyone's DF's and PF's fill up faster. And yes, I know I could have simply asked him to clarify, my wording was not the best, but hindsight is 20/20 and even in hindsight I don't really think I needed to be scolded on how to play my class, especially over what is, at best, an assumption on everyone's part(including my own) that we know exactly what was going through another person's head when they made a vague statement that needed clarification.

[Shurrikhan]

Refer to the above quote. Once again, nowhere did I say I was the authority on WAR and my opinion is the only right one. In the last two or so months I have met many players though, at least in my datacenter, that like to make very generalized statements based off of limited experience, and I would like that to stop, as many new players (with the leaf next to their name and everything) that they spout nonsense to believe it right off the bat and never look for themselves, which I dislike greatly due to the fact it promotes both ignorance in the playerbase and is factually incorrect.

The only problem there is you picked the one argument that doesn't have a direct factual counter. In ALL cases, enmity combos are a DPS loss, at least until such time as you'd lose rDPS because of your damage-dealers getting picked off due to your low enmity. And that's pretty well been taken care of via Shirk so long as you have a NIN and no SAM (or Monk, if they're good enough).

THAT blanketing statement is technically correct in all cases, and trying uninformedly to throw smoke onto any one of those cases to change the result does truth no favors.

[LeeraSorlan]

I do believe Phireblast was talking about main tanking

But you even said to use Butchers as OT, which is what i was commenting on. So we apparently cant agree as you were wrong.

Plus the above post said it well, enmity combos for all tanks are a dps loss, which goes against your statement.


Dont tell people they need to do research before you research, yourself lol

[Namingwayfinder]

But you even said to use Butchers as OT, which is what i was commenting on. So we apparently cant agree as you were wrong.

Plus the above post said it well, enmity combos for all tanks are a dps loss, which goes against your statement.


Dont tell people they need to do research before you research, yourself lol

Well being rude won't make you any more right, and it certainly won't make your argument any more sound. Apparently you're unfamiliar with certain terminology so I'll explain something that may have confused you into assuming things I never said and putting words in my mouth that were never there. Not once did I say all WAR OTs need to or should use Butcher's Block as part of a normal rotation. I specifically said that the higher potency is why you see some tanks use it in tank rotation. The use of the word rotation was probably a poor choice, but I will explain what I meant so you can stop your "my epeen is bigger you stoopid" argument. When I said rotation, I guess I should have clarified that rotation in that context was for when you're rotating tanks due to specific mechanics that force tanks to change targets, AKA a tank swap. Except in the case of very few encounters in the game, where both tanks need to swap between themselves but hold the enemies in the same position, AKA rotate tanking targets. I simplified the thought to fit character limit so I wouldn't go back into edit mode and write a damn novel, but come now, this is a flimsy, grasping at straws argument from you and poor clarification from me, can you leave it at that and move on from your fixation to feign superiority to somebody over the internet? It's not helping you look any smarter than your lack of reading did.

TL;DR: I didn't explain myself clearly, you inferred a lot of things that weren't said, we both look like idiots now. Happy?

[Namingwayfinder]

The only problem there is you picked the one argument that doesn't have a direct factual counter. In ALL cases, enmity combos are a DPS loss, at least until such time as you'd lose rDPS because of your damage-dealers getting picked off due to your low enmity. And that's pretty well been taken care of via Shirk so long as you have a NIN and no SAM (or Monk, if they're good enough).

THAT blanketing statement is technically correct in all cases, and trying uninformedly to throw smoke onto any one of those cases to change the result does truth no favors.

Well, I'll admit to not being very clear on my verbage, peruse post above for hindsight being 20/20 and me realizing I use outdated terminology out of habit. To put it simply, you are correct, if you'll notice I actually agreed with the point that yes, enmity combos are definitely a loss to overall dps in the first response to LeeraSorlan

And while we're on the subject of picking the least factually countered argument, trying to pick apart an anecdote is like trying to kill yourself by holding your breath, it kind of doesn't work and suffocates you before you come to the resolution you want. Yes, I used an anecdote that demonstrated that I very much dislike broad generalizations because they can be factually incorrect. Yet I never tried to argue any point other than the fact that generalized statements, like the one the person I was originally responding to, can have small nuances that may actually be incorrect. Look at the whole fiasco over the Blackest Night for DRK in 4.05, how a large part of the community held the idea that it was a DPS gain when, once the math was done and equivalated, it actually turned out to be a DPS loss.

TL;DR: You're doing exactly what the LeeraSorlan did, in essence, making a mountain out of a molehill for reasons that you derived both from my poor clarification and and multiple assumptions and inferences on your part that weren't there in any statement I made. Now can we please stop arguing about WAR and talk about MNK, like the thread was originally about? I feel bad for the people that had to sit through this elitist, "holier than thou because I can't admit I may have misunderstood something" attitude.