Healing in 4man parties (The experience 60-70)

[SendohJin]

I feel peopel default to mass pulling, rather than actually picking whats best for the group.

because that's the fastest way to figure out what the group can do.

i always go fast until they show me they can't. gear really doesn't matter if they are doing their rotations right.

[LittleChickenNugget]

That's the spirit. Stay in that echochamber, never listen to conflicting opinions or perspectives.

Being outside their bubble is unsafe. The opinions of others can be very harmful. Thinking in more ways than one? Well that's just suicide.

[Alestorm]

Most decent tanks will do smaller pulls after either the first wipe or the tank got super close to dying at least twice. If you can't DPS then focus on healing maybe throw out Shadowflare at the start for some damage. As a healer the right balance of damage and healing boils down to your own abilities in that class.

Once I clear a dungeon a few times as a healer I can go full "harmacy" and throw a lot of DPS as WHM or AST and not lose a single party member. If you have problems with large pulls let the tank know and I'm sure he/she will work with you.

[Mimilu]

Being outside their bubble is unsafe. The opinions of others can be very harmful. Thinking in more ways than one? Well that's just suicide.

The pot and kettle are friends in this scenario... >w>

[Avatre]

A good tank will use the first pull to gauge the abilities of the party if nobody speaks up otherwise. First and foremost, is people speaking up though. If a healer requests smaller pulls, 99% of tanks will oblige because a smooth run is still faster than a chaotic one filled with wipes due to unprepared/novice/undergeared healers/tanks. When I was leveling my AST, due to my luck with gear drops, I mentioned(before the gate even dropped) that I wasn't sure if big pulls would be good due to me not getting many at-level roulette queues(I was in all augmented Shire, with the odd Bardam accessory). Tank was perfectly fine doing the single group pulls until I hit 68, and was able to put on my HQ healer crafted gear a friend made me. Then we flew through the rest, with no deaths even before that.

[Hestzhyen]

To the OP, dosnt listen to others trying to disagree with you.

Also, for some reason people seem to think the SB leveling dungeons are on par with HW dungeons, or SB endgame dungeons in difficulty of how hard hitting trash mobs are.

SB leveling dungeons hit way harder, AND starting at Bardums Run (or w/e its called) they intermix certain hard hitting or cleave enemies, that should be stuned or dealt with 1st, before pulling more mobs. Almost always at the start of the run. Once u get past them, the rest of the dungeon is smooth sailing.

What? Lv1-60 is a joke and super easy. 2.0 unerfed Arum Vale is easier than most of the SB dungeons.
There wasnt a single difficult encounter up till SB. The only difficulty stemed from healers maybe wasting heals/rezzes on people who didnt dodge, which you almost never need to do. (You can solo most of the bosses)
Thats like saying Lv70 dungeons at iLv290 is as hard as the leveling dungeons in SB, when they are jokes, and super easy, even if under geared.

Maybe you sleepwalked through the HW dungeons, but they're definitely more demanding than the 1-49 dungeons from Sohm Al onwards. The Vault is still a sore point and wake-up call for many groups because even WHM players can feel like they just don't heal enough in there. Yet the standard there is still "pull ALL THE THINGS" unless the group clearly can't handle it; whether that's found out by the tank gauging how long it takes the first pack to die + accounting for group composition or the party wiping is up to luck of the draw. By the time you get to 60 you should know that you'll have to heal more and DPS/idle less- that's the standard that HW set, and a rational person would have every reason to believe that the same would be true for SB dungeons. (Unless, of course, you're skipping to 60 on a role you've never played, in which case... why? Level your first job in that role the proper way and skip the others up.)

SB dungeons aren't that much harder than the HW dungeons. They require a base level of competency that is still incredibly low considering how good you can be at the game. People mention Bardam's like it's some unexpectedly hard gauntlet- and it can be the first time you do it and the tank pulls and you're scared because he has as much defense as a paper bag compared to what you're used to. But then you realise things hit harder so you'll need to DPS less and possibly use one of those potency/spell speed buffs you hardly touch to keep up and it's probably ok. If it ISN'T ok then, well, ask the tank to slow down. Don't snark after the wipe, just tactfully mention that the group probably can't handle the "real deal" and move on.

P.S.- telling someone to ignore valid critiques is bad. Just bad. You don't have to agree with someone to find merit in what they're saying. OP may come to hate healing if he doesn't realise how his mindset is affecting his experiences.

[Mimilu]

I don't know how you're finishing leveling/70 dungeons in 13 to 16 minutes with one pack at a time.

Dude, it's called estimating, chillax. =w=
If anything, your example is evidences to what they are saying: in a good scenario (like with you and your raid group), it takes a party 13-16 minutes to do level 70 4-man content.
In a bad scenario, it takes 20-30 minutes, depending on on the severity of the bad.

I like when my tanks do big pulls and it can get sloppy. It makes healing fun for a change.

You shouldn't encourage people to play they're job badly, especially when they are at the maximum level. :B

[SomeRandomHuman]

Healing with sch isn't difficult even with crappy tanks. Every job has at least 2 burst heal buttons by level 62. For whm you have benediction(lv 50) which just restores the recipient to max hp regardless of how many mobs are hitting them. Then there's tetragrammaton(lv 60) which is a single target burst heal. Not to mention you have Assize(lv 56).

For sch you have lustrate(lv 50) which is a semi-spam able heal nuke right at level 62 you get exocognition which is the 2nd best heal spell in terms of raw healing. Just slap it on the tank prepull since it lasts 45 secs or just after he gets agro. If he drops below 50% he gets an 800 potency auto heal.

Then Ast has essential dignity(really low level) and at 62 you get earthly star which, even if you put it down then blow it up right away, is still 540 healing potency.

You just gotta know how your tools work and apply them accordingly. When I leveled my healers I never had problems except people eating aoes.

[Sebazy]

Those are the common bad experiences i got: (Ordered from "okay..." to "this is madness")

Honestly, #5 sounds like heaven to me

Seriously though, it feels like you've forgotten how big a deal gear makes to 'expert' dungeons. The biggest reason why we can chew through them so effortlessly is because for the most part, we outgear them, significantly. That's not a luxury we have during the levelling dungeons and as such, you really need to adapt accordingly.

Don't get me wrong, you've probably seen me singing the praises of just how much damage a healer can do in a 4 man dungeon, but at the end of the day, you're a healer and there's times when you've just got to suck it up and actually heal if and when the need arrises (Which it does in levelling dungeons, frequently). This isn't anything new, the Dusk Vigil in SB was also a huge wakeup call for healers especially with the huge wave of super squishy DRKs on launch.

If you feel that your gear isn't up to scratch for the pulls the tank is likely to make, that's on you, it takes a few seconds to type '/p Hey, I'm new here and my gear isn't very good yet, go easy please' or some such and most people will understand and adjust accordingly.

I've had literally one dungeon wipe in recent memory where I quite literally couldn't keep up with the healing requirement (Bardams 3 pack at the start on my lvl 60 geared SCH), and even then that was a combination of me getting caught napping and not having enough aetherflow charges on hand to save it right at the start of the dungeon. Had I been on the ball and positioned better, or had it happened on the second pull or onwards I suspect I could have saved things.

That sort of situation is precisely why I love playing the healer so much. You can always react quicker, preempt better and act more efficiently. Rather than pointing the finger at others, ask yourself, what could I have done better there? I guarantee that with some shadowplay recordings or such, you'll have seen very very few if any situations in levelling dungeons that you couldn't have salvaged with a bit more talent and experience.

As for your suggestion of limiting pulls to single packs? No thanks. Whilst I do think SE do need to take note of some of their trash inconsistencies in levelling dungeons, healing is one of the few aspects of this game that isn't entirely dumbed down to fit the lowest common denominator and frankly, it's one of the few facets of this game where you can truly fail in casual content. I can't stress enough how boring your suggestion would make expert for me, and I can't see myself being alone on this one =(

*edit* oh and regarding the dungeon length thing:

My fastest - 11minute temple
My slowest - 30 minute Ala Mhigo (With no wipes amusingly)

It's worth noting that even with no wipes, that Ala Mhigo could well have stretched into 40+ minutes if I hadn't have been DPSing as well.

[HiromiVenia]

I don't know how you're finishing leveling/70 dungeons in 13 to 16 minutes with one pack at a time.

I had an FC tank and two very competent FC DPS run Kugane Castle with me on WHM and we made it out in 12 mins with every pull being wall to wall. That was something of a best case scenario (perhaps apart from me) because everyone else in the party was Savage-geared and very good at their jobs. I was on WHM and still did considerable DPS.

To me your post loses all credibility with those times you've listed, they simply can't be true based on my experience.

Hi, i have finished bardams in 15min pulling one group of mobs at once.

Yeah, both your dps need to do their job well, and your healer (in this case it was me) needs to add their dps rotations too, if the tank is well geared sure ewill add some extra dps so the run will go very fast.

I have done 70 dungeons as tank, with a healer friend and 2 well dps in 13minutes (you know, the gear there is better), and not a single massive pull was done.

The healer in my party is less stressed out and having more fun, because he can play a little bit of dps role using his skills besides heal heal heal and just heal alone.

The problem is when your healer never do dps, then it's slower for sure and the only way to speed it up is pulling massively (and in this case the healer will not even have time to breathe, so no dps will be added). Anyway, if my random healer never do dps, i encourage them to do, but i never pull massively unless the pull is very small (sometimes there is only 2 mobs... then, i add the next).