Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[Remedi]

Or how Mp song actually has no drawbacks while giving 5k to each ppl in the party while Mana shift is as you put hot garbage no matter what, Frankly caster have probably the most underused or completely useless skills in the arsenal and a second pass should be given to make them better

[Ceallach]

Do your homework.

Except that you're then getting less Fire IV casts in that case because you aren't reducing the MP cost with Umbral Hearts. You're also overlooking the fact I said it's a concept. Nowhere did I say, "The devs need to do exactly this." I'd have no problem with Frost being weaker, and Burn's already weaker than Fire. Also, I would not want Burn to be powered up by another Burn, so there'd be no point on double-casting it or something. It would be a movement tool and a DPS increase for the caster personally, just like Ley Lines is, so that Fire would still do more damage than Burn while standing still.

Want to ridicule me some more for actually trying to help?

Look at how many more people came into the thread with "no rez muh swiftcast/uptime killz the loar" while I was gone~!

Look at how you're still defending the most idiotic idea on the forums! Exactly what is it going to take to make you shut up about Raise on black mage being okay? It's not. There are lore reasons, yes, and there are also gameplay reasons. Your propaganda is unwelcome.

That said, your ideas on Mana Shift are fine, and your idea to make Fire and Blizzard cast instantly through Enochian from the other thread are also fine.

[Kabooa]

Want to ridicule me some more for actually trying to help?

It is criticism, something you are quick to give but clearly not keen on taking.

There is a mountain of hard data available for you to look through if you do not have time to invest heavily into playing the class.

Regarding B4, I will put it simply. B4 is not always a gain. It is usually neutral, because while it extends your time in AF, in most cases it also extends your time in UI, your downtime. B4's value grows as you get more spellspeed but it won't hit the "Always use" point at current, or even possibly next tier. This is a symptom of the MP tick system they currently use. Frost being an instant cast, higher potency than B4 means that is never an issue. You will always enter AF with full MP, have +120 potency over B4, and are less hampered by MP ticks. Frost therefore invalidates B4 in almost every situation.

This may change with whatever they are planning.

B4 does have one scenario of always-gain and it's in planned burst phases, such as the Opener, O3S and every single Add spawn, O4S and meteors, and likely phases in Unending Coil. (I haven't done any of this, and likely won't at this time), and it does have some use in 'lining up Foul timers' which is marginally useful when banking a Foul will lead to an overwrite later on.

[Llugen]

It's amazing that BLM is still a slave to the server tick and not given its own independent MP regen mechanic via Umbral Ice. I'd go so far as to say it should EVEN get standard MP regen in Astral Fire to the point where you could have enough to cast Thunder III left over as a result. But none of this necessarily has anything to do with BLM and raise, so probably best saved for the other thread.


I want to see more instant cast procs (and more reliable ones, at that) to facilitate the use of off-GCDs. This would streamline ANY off-GCD raise that we've been toying with, whether it be targeted or a proc or a tether or anything, it would help with Mana Shift usage, and it would help with movement and by extension damage.

[PrismaticDaybreak]

It's amazing that BLM is still a slave to the server tick and not given its own independent MP regen mechanic via Umbral Ice. I'd go so far as to say it should EVEN get standard MP regen in Astral Fire to the point where you could have enough to cast Thunder III left over as a result. But none of this necessarily has anything to do with BLM and raise, so probably best saved for the other thread.


I want to see more instant cast procs (and more reliable ones, at that) to facilitate the use of off-GCDs. This would streamline ANY off-GCD raise that we've been toying with, whether it be targeted or a proc or a tether or anything, it would help with Mana Shift usage, and it would help with movement and by extension damage.

They have a lot of stuff in PvP that alleviates those issues and I have no idea why they don't adapt it to PvE, and not just for BLM either.

[Ceallach]

It is criticism, something you are quick to give but clearly not keen on taking.

In fairness, ridicule is what I'm used to. I have a long history of being right and still not being taken seriously by people. Just this year I warned my mother about one of her friends whom I didn't trust, and that person actually called the police on my mother for calling her phone too much, to which my reaction was, "I told you so." Furthermore, text-only conversation leaves much to be desired, as most of human communication is actually in voice tone and body language.

But to refer to your point, I would then weaken Frost in order to force Blizzard IV to be used. The idea was that it would be a movement tool first and replace only Blizzard or Blizzard II if anything. I guess I'd make its potency match Burn's or something, but I would not be willing to give up Umbral Hearts for anything. But yeah, I don't particularly disagree with your points, I just don't want something as stupid as black mage getting Raise happening. I'm really only here to make it as clear as possible why that's a stupid idea, and the Burn/Frost idea was just something that would both help and be in line with the lore of the game and series. I never said Burn and Frost were the best idea ever.

[Kabooa]

But yeah, I don't particularly disagree with your points, I just don't want something as stupid as black mage getting Raise happening. I'm really only here to make it as clear as possible why that's a stupid idea, and the Burn/Frost idea was just something that would both help and be in line with the lore of the game and series. I never said Burn and Frost were the best idea ever.

I mainly argue with the context of the thread.

Of the utility I would personally add to Black Mage, Raise is the last choice, but in the context of this thread, it is better to give Black Mage raise than to take it away from the other casters without changing anything else. This only makes the Caster Role weaker and serves to further push them out of 8 man parties. One of the main issues when discussing balance adjustments is that the full picture invalidates what are otherwise solid suggestions on their own.

It is within that context that the Raise suggestions I personally have made come from, usually coupled with a slight hit to Summoner and a buff to Red Mage. With that in mind, additional changes would be needed, usually related to the over-stuffing of Ranged Role with superior tool choices, but to break that up, that would require another change in the basic mechanics of the game. It gets real !@#%ing messy, and it isn't for this thread.

Regarding Burn and Frost, I wasn't as constructive as I should have been, primarily because I'd rather not shift the focus of the thread. I promise you're not the only one I say "No dat doesn't work" to. Really wish this forums had Spoiler tags just so I don't clutter up a page with a full 'Here's the issues I see and what I would change about it'.

[Dualgunner]

Really wish this forums had Spoiler tags just so I don't clutter up a page with a full 'Here's the issues I see and what I would change about it'.

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[Alisi]

The Raise abilities of SMN and RDM should preferably be removed, as it's causing a major balance issue which SE seems incapable of fixing.

Hax. I call foul. SMN and RDM don't have the raise ability. I've never seen either use it. The other day I was in Rab. All the DPS are one of these classes and, at some point, both the healers (of which is myself) and the tank was dead. We had to beg revs from other alliance healers. One of the SMNs was physicking himself rather than rev one of the healers. We're healing with zero MP and must've used rev like 30 times, and those four revved exactly zero times. Don't worry SMN/RDM. We got'chu covered. It was hilarious. Much fun was had. We laughed. We cried... Well, mostly we cried.

This is how I know SMNs and RDMs don't have rev spells.

[Kabooa]

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