Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

[winsock]

Spare me your attempts at being clever. You haven't once given a solid answer or rebuttal to anything someone here has said.

I beg to differ.

Your claim was that a group of "sports-loving guys" would know the basics of how to play the sport they loved.
My counter-point was that not all polo fans know the basics of riding a horse.

^ your claim was not thought out properly. It was not a solid point. It crumbles depending on the sport. You cant defend your point, so you attack me directly, talk down to me, and then tell me am acting childish lol.

My points were valid.
Your premise was not an accurate representation of the pool of players in the duty finder. At best, this is a pool group of people who want to clear XYZ content or roulette.
You made an assumption that their love of the sport will somehow translate into proficiency at the sport. Obviously, that assumption is not true.
In the duty finder, someone's desire to clear XYZ content is not a reflection of their skill level.

I absolutely HATE Brayflox. But I understand the subtle genius behind that dungeon.

This isnt a design discussion. This is a discussion of poor performance. With the question being "Why does it feel like poor play is acceptable?".
Say I queue leveling roulette as a tank, get brayflox, and at some point in the dungeon one of the potential problems you mention occurs, doesnt really matter which one.
The party member in question isn't kicked
They make a similar mistake and are not kicked.
etc
As I said in my first post, it will only feel like poor play is acceptable if you decide to feel that way. It really doesnt matter how many mistakes someone makes. I am by no means saying that their performance is acceptable, maybe 'tolerable' at best.

People are acting like the sky is falling when the randomly assigned party member doesnt meet their expectations. Getting bad party members on occasion is a part of pugging. You dont need to accept poor performer, you can kick them or what have you, but it is completely unreasonable to expect everyone who was randomly assigned to you in the duty finder to meet your expectations every time.

[Dualgunner]

My points were valid.

Except for the failed hypothetical syllogism. That wasn't very valid.

[HyoMinPark]

People are acting like the sky is falling when the randomly assigned party member doesnt meet their expectations. Getting bad party members on occasion is a part of pugging. You dont need to accept poor performer, you can kick them or what have you, but it is completely unreasonable to expect everyone who was randomly assigned to you in the duty finder to meet your expectations every time.

Most of what I see are people sympathizing with the OP in that they have met players at levels much higher than beginner levels performing subparly, and then getting bent out of shape when someone offers to show them a proper way/better way to play, and how poor play in higher level content is just not acceptable. Or how it’s not “high standards” to expect people at levels 50, 60, and 70 to know the very basics of their job/role. And people disagreeing that playing the game/playing your job well is not the equivalent of treating the game like a “job”, as one poster tried to insinuate.

Different skill levels do exist. But that doesn’t make lazy play (note, how I said lazy play, not play born from lack of knowledge on your job/role) okay. Especially the higher level you get. A non-combo’d Butcher’s Block only WAR in Snowcloak? Tank unable to perform the basics of his role in a level 70 dungeon? Healer unable to keep up with basic healing demands? Unacceptable.

Because I find it very unlikely that that WAR didn’t know Butcher’s Block uncomboed is extremely ineffective. And, on the off-chance he did and turned down helpful, respectfully delivered advice because “it’s my sub”, then he is still at fault, and his behavior is still unacceptable.

I find it far more upsetting that people are willing to white-knight poor play because “it’s just a game”. Yeah, well so is something like football or basketball. Doesn’t mean that you just let the opposing team steal the ball from you each time because “lol it’s just a game, I play for fun”. I’m willing to overlook if a player is truly new, and if it really looks like they are trying to improve. But if a person is willfully performing poorly, I have no patience or tolerance for them.

[MoroMurasaki]

People are acting like the sky is falling when the randomly assigned party member doesnt meet their expectations. Getting bad party members on occasion is a part of pugging. You dont need to accept poor performer, you can kick them or what have you, but it is completely unreasonable to expect everyone who was randomly assigned to you in the duty finder to meet your expectations every time.

When your standards are "read your tooltips and apply logic to them to come to some sort of rudimentary rotation" yes, that's a completely reasonable thing to expect in group content.

If you can't read how are you playing this game? If you can't follow a series of flashing buttons telling you what to press next I feel you shouldn't be doing group content until this is something within your wheelhouse.

[Jijifli]

Your claim was that a group of "sports-loving guys" would know the basics of how to play the sport they loved.

Are going to tell me you fully believe if a person is a fan of Baseball, watches multiple games, but doesn't know you run bases counterclockwise when he decides to do it?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

You dont need to accept poor performer, you can kick them or what have you, but it is completely unreasonable to expect everyone who was randomly assigned to you in the duty finder to meet your expectations every time.

What you seem to not be getting is that no one is enforcing "their" standard. That is where your attempts at an argument fall apart. We're talking about a reasonable standard. Would you not consider being geared at minimum ilvl a reasonable standard and not a player enforced one? That's not the player saying "you need gear at this level at least for this", that's the game itself saying it. Would you consider a max level to be a reasonable standard by which to have an understanding, even if basic, of a job and how it works? Is it not reasonable to expect a max level tank to be capable of holding aggro and utilizing defensive cooldowns as needed? By all means, explain where "reasonable standard" is somehow lost in translation here.

I'm not going to even entertain your attempt at trying to break down my "sports" metaphor. And before you even think about trying to play the "well you're just dodging it because you can't give a rebuttal" bit, no, I'm not dodging it one bit. But neither one of us would get anything substantial from me deconstructing a weak argument or talking down to you. Not when there are bigger points that are being missed here. So, effectively, think what you want on that one, but bring a better argument before you try breaking mine down.

Lastly, you seem to have stopped at my mention of Brayflox, attempting to form your rebuttal right then and there. The larger point of that tangent was to point out that the dungeon is subtle in pushing players to learn things that they'll be dealing with forever after, and in a way that begins to sow the seeds of effective team play in their understanding of general gameplay, and how their job/role fits into it. I noted that newer players make fewer mistakes there in the learning environment than some endgame players make in endgame content, where it becomes time to skillfully apply what was learned. And again, would you not call it reasonable to expect more competency and fewer missteps from an experienced player (at least as level would dictate) than a newer player?