DRK - My feelings towards it at this point. Slightly Dark.

[Reapestlife]

Hey there,

I know there has been lots of post about this. Many in depth ones about potency and number crunching. I appreciate those.

Mine's simple. I played my WAR at i335 last night, even with my Dark. It's amazing how good it feels compared.

More cools downs, more variance, less feeling of a burden on the healer due to more cool downs. Just better feeling.

I won't create a long list but really more mitigation, less AOE choices, a variance in main rotation. (Jumping up and down with a giant sword does't feel good regardless. A powerful swing would be amazing)

I don't have to be the strongest. I don't mind being the weakest. But it'd be nice to get some of that clunk out of here.

Sorry for any specific offer making it better numbers and potency wise. Thanks.

[RLofOBFL]

Have you tried The Blackest Night?

[Reapestlife]

Of course.

[Reapestlife]

Just adding to the long list of people saying the class don't feel right. Thanks.

[RLofOBFL]

Yes but I believe people are blowing DRK way out of proportion. Its mitigation is fine in relevant content. Its not clunky at all bar DA C&S, & it isn't any.harder to heal than WAR(imo WAR is hardest to heal). I think people are blind to how DRK really isn't in a super bad shape(think 3.0 PLD) due to the masses saying its bad currently and a lot of people are just going with the flow.

All it's honestly missing is a small bit of dps and some kinda raidwide damage reduction or equivalent skill and it can easily replace WAR or PLD in the meta.

It sounds more like people are just taking the DRK uproar opportunity to list what people want DRK to have rather than actual fixes. Based on what you feel and not what is fact. It doesn't need less Aoe choice, it doesn't even need another main combo, neither of those would fix DRK's problems. I am not attacking you or anything, it's just my two cents(that may have been bettee to keep to myself). But this won't make Yoshi fix the class, it needs hard facts as to why it's worse and a declinIng playerbase(which I can't help with bc I love playing it too much ;_; ).

[WhyAmIHere]

DA CnS is the one instance of DA done great IMO. I think more skills should have an augmented DA effect instead of "lol durr here's 140 potency." (Personal opinion is redo BS into being a lower potency & a DoT without being DA'd, when DA'd boost it's potency to being comparable to a Fell Cleave.)

It sounds more like people are just taking the DRK uproar opportunity to list what people want DRK to have rather than actual fixes. Based on what you feel and not what is fact. It doesn't need less Aoe choice, it doesn't even need another main combo, neither of those would fix DRK's problems. I am not attacking you or anything, it's just my two cents(that may have been bettee to keep to myself). But this won't make Yoshi fix the class, it needs hard facts as to why it's worse and a declinIng playerbase(which I can't help with bc I love playing it too much ;_; ).

There's a lot of clunkiness to the job that I feel can easily be addressed. Base potency increases sure. Not adding a 3rd combo finisher I can actually get behind. Just fix either DP's potency or cost. Make Sole Survivor useful across the board. Find a way to make Living Dead less punishing to the healers compared to HG and Holm. Do something with the blood gauge and the skills related to it. etc etc

[Chrono_Rising]

Yes but I believe people are blowing DRK way out of proportion. Its mitigation is fine in relevant content. Its not clunky at all bar DA C&S, & it isn't any.harder to heal than WAR(imo WAR is hardest to heal). I think people are blind to how DRK really isn't in a super bad shape(think 3.0 PLD) due to the masses saying its bad currently and a lot of people are just going with the flow.

All it's honestly missing is a small bit of dps and some kinda raidwide damage reduction or equivalent skill and it can easily replace WAR or PLD in the meta.

It sounds more like people are just taking the DRK uproar opportunity to list what people want DRK to have rather than actual fixes. Based on what you feel and not what is fact. It doesn't need less Aoe choice, it doesn't even need another main combo, neither of those would fix DRK's problems. I am not attacking you or anything, it's just my two cents(that may have been bettee to keep to myself). But this won't make Yoshi fix the class, it needs hard facts as to why it's worse and a declinIng playerbase(which I can't help with bc I love playing it too much ;_; ).

Dark Knight offers little to a raid group. This isn't overblown, it just is a fact. In easy content which we overgear these differences are small, in difficult content we don't overgear these issues appear to be larger.

In current Savage the top Warrior put out 8.9% more dps than the top Dark Knight. In current Ultimate Warrior is putting out 14% more dps than the top Dark Knight. This isn't quite HW levels, but it is not trivial.

Current Savage we see a number of uses for party shields to help healers and keep party members alive. Now two out of three tanks bring one, Dark Knight doesn't, I'm willing to bet this is important during prog and speed runs if there is as frequent raid damage as their was this tier.

Dark Knight isn't that bad off with mitigation if you use TBN correctly, but the skill is lackluster imo when paladin has on demand mitigation which also procs a 150 potency oGCD. However, this status of "close enough mitigation" also depends on our tank busters staying magical in nature, I agree with others predictions that a physical tier will put dark knight at a major disadvantage but currently no content really threatens this. I dislike dark mind being less magic mitigation at base unless we dark arts it, and still feel we are missing single target selfsustain when not in tank stance.

We can quibble about more in-depth details about the design and where these things come from. But the point is that Dark Knight isn't giving a strong incentive to groups that isn't already on another tank.

At base, Dark Knight needs alittle more help with mitigation, part of that could just be adjusting the reward from TBN so it doesn't depend on crits, direct hits, and buffs to be a gain. Dark Knight also could probably use a boost to its main combo, and some oGCD enmity modifiers to match paladin and warrior. Finally Dark Knight needs a way to help with raid damage, either by group mitigation, or by a party wide regen to help healers.

[Namingwayfinder]

Snip

Here's how I see it. We all know in the DPS scene, MNK is considered to be a "selfish" DPS (no raidwide utility besides weak little bortherhood). WAR is much the same way when it come to tanks, they have Shake It Off, and that's pretty much it. DRK should, just for the sake of variance have more utility than WAR, but less than PLD, in an ideal situation, while being able to keep competitive in damage. Chrono I've read all your threads and frankly, I agree with you that DRK has nothing that other tanks don't do better, and has nothing that makes people look its way, which is something that should be addressed.

I mean, why have a tank around that the other tanks perform better than? If there's no incentive for the class but looks it quickly loses its appeal to a lot of players, especially with only three tanks, variety in skillsets is a must. SE has kinda failed to make DRK noticeable compared to WAR or PLD, which sucks because there's a lot of potential there for a truly unique class, and I think a lot of people have been seeing this lately, and speaking up is what the community should do when a problem like this arises.

[Chrono_Rising]

Snip

I agree, but we know how SE feels about reworking skills so I feel the short term fix is to at least make dark knight really noticeable in dps since that is just number tuning.

Come 5.0 I would hope that the devs put in a serious amount of consideration into taking your advice in making all the classes have a variety of skills where each tank can shine.

[Namingwayfinder]

I agree, but we know how SE feels about reworking skills so I feel the short term fix is to at least make dark knight really noticeable in dps since that is just number tuning.

Come 5.0 I would hope that the devs put in a serious amount of consideration into taking your advice in making all the classes have a variety of skills where each tank can shine.

I'd really like to see debuffs on combos come back again, but be maybe something exclusive, like how Rage of Halone used to inflict Strength Down in ARR. Hell, what if it was a stacking debuff that gave the DRK more MP back on Carve and Spit, or once it reached full stacks, give the non Dark Arts MP regen to C&S, even if it has been Dark Arts enhanced? Or maybe make Dark Arts inflict some kind of debuff on Syphon Strike or something? I feel like what it does give extra on moves that use it is just, missing something, and there's plenty of ways to make DRK have a unique kit that makes it a factor of consideration for a party, or at least makes it something other than tossed away because "it's not the best."