Would you like an in-game parser?

[RiyahArp]

It’d be interesting to see how different things would be if the current crop of Dungeon bosses punished players for mistakes in the same manner as the early ARR stuff. Mechanically they are more complex, much more so, it just doesn’t matter if you ignore/fail most of it.

it wouldn't matter, because people do the mechanics in them fine already. The whole skill debate tends to center around being able to do pain in the butt content that has a huge list of mechanics that will one shot you or the raid if someone fails them. Unless you made the dungeons like that, you wouldn't get what you wanted. The greater issue is that a lot of people simply don't care for that kind of content.

[Deithwen]

it wouldn't matter, because people do the mechanics in them fine already. The whole skill debate tends to center around being able to do pain in the butt content that has a huge list of mechanics that will one shot you or the raid if someone fails them. Unless you made the dungeons like that, you wouldn't get what you wanted. The greater issue is that a lot of people simply don't care for that kind of content.

This is exactly what Sebazy said : " if the current crop of Dungeon bosses punished players for mistakes in the same manner as the early ARR stuff"
And people don't really do mecanics fine, they're just non existant or barely noticeable. In Amdapor Keep (before it got nerfed to the ground) you actually had to do mecanics properly while dealing at least decent DPS to clear.

[RiyahArp]

My point was that people already do the mechanics in dungeon fine. Making them more punishing for mistakes wouldn't matter, unless you made the actual mechanics a lot more difficult. And if you did, you'd just suck the fun out of the game, for what? We already clear casual content fine already. People don't do raids because they don't like the way hard content in this game plays; trying to push that mode of content down the chain isn't going to magically make them like it or decide to try raiding.

[Tridus]

My point was that people already do the mechanics in dungeon fine. Making them more punishing for mistakes wouldn't matter, unless you made the actual mechanics a lot more difficult. And if you did, you'd just suck the fun out of the game, for what? We already clear casual content fine already. People don't do raids because they don't like the way hard content in this game plays; trying to push that mode of content down the chain isn't going to magically make them like it or decide to try raiding.

But people don't "do the mechanics in dungeons fine". They're often terrible at it. It just looks fine because there's no consequence for failure in pretty much any dungeon in Stormblood. Risk of wiping is nonexistant outside of pulling more trash packs at once than your group can handle. That wasn't true in the past, and it creates a very steep difficulty jump when you get to stuff where the consequence is "you wipe".

[RiyahArp]

But people don't "do the mechanics in dungeons fine". They're often terrible at it. It just looks fine because there's no consequence for failure in pretty much any dungeon in Stormblood. Risk of wiping is nonexistant outside of pulling more trash packs at once than your group can handle. That wasn't true in the past, and it creates a very steep difficulty jump when you get to stuff where the consequence is "you wipe".

they aren't often terrible at it. They do them all just fine. People keep exaggerating the frequency of the rare times when they don't.

[HyoMinPark]

they aren't often terrible at it. They do them all just fine. People keep exaggerating the frequency of the rare times when they don't.

The Tales of the Duty Finder thread would like a word with you.

[LadyKairi]

they aren't often terrible at it. They do them all just fine. People keep exaggerating the frequency of the rare times when they don't.

lol considering I come across bad players on a daily basis in nearly every duty I run, all the complaining I see in FC chat of people coming across bad players, the rant pages on Tumblr, AND the tales from the duty finder (as well as threads in the role portions of the forums), it is not nearly as rare as you seem to think it is.

[HyoMinPark]

My point was that people already do the mechanics in dungeon fine. Making them more punishing for mistakes wouldn't matter, unless you made the actual mechanics a lot more difficult. And if you did, you'd just suck the fun out of the game, for what? We already clear casual content fine already. People don't do raids because they don't like the way hard content in this game plays; trying to push that mode of content down the chain isn't going to magically make them like it or decide to try raiding.

People don't do the mechanics in dungeons just fine. How many times do you see people running away with a stack marker? They just don't learn because the mechanics don't punish them enough for failing. The minute anything is added that is remotely challenging (take Hashmal from Rabanastre), a thread is made asking to nerf the fight because failing the mechanics actually does more than gives you a vulnerability stack. Like his fire dash gives you a DoT that will kill you if you fail it, unless you’re a tank and have tank health/defense privileges. Very simple mechanic, very obvious mechanic on how to avoid failing it, yet people were asking for it to be nerfed about a week after the content was released.

Adding on to this: take Weeping City. Probably the best example of a challenging 24-man in this game at release. And the 24-mans got easier after it. Dun Scaith was good; I loved it. But it didn’t have that same difficulty curve as Weeping City did. And Rabanastre, the first two bosses are fun, but after that, the last two are a snooze fest unless people ignore the Shades during the last one and 3 or more explode so that everyone gets turned into a chicken. And even that won’t really wipe you the same way as screwing up Ozma’s meteors or Forgal’s puddle mechanics or spinning Calofesteri around would.

Yojimbo in Kugane Castle, if you ignore the gold, his attack does 16,000 damage. People had more health than that in Heavensward, so it won’t come anywhere close to killing you now. So it doesn’t really teach players anything other than “I can ignore this and be fine”, which then filters over into other content if they decide to poke around in Extreme or Savage—you can’t ignore mechanics in those fights (usually). Then they come to the forum or go to reddit or wherever and start crying that content is “too hard” and needs to be “nerfed”.

And making a better difficulty curve isn't about trying to get people to raid. It's about not making 99% of the content in this game mind-numbing boring/easy and giving it at least some form of challenge. I don't think dungeons should be so easy I could do them while making myself a sandwich, sorry.

[Zarkovitch]

there no way they gonna add parse on this game but would be nice to see somekind of ranking system tho like E,D,C,B,A,S on high difficulty content that be fun.

[DeaconMoore]

there no way they gonna add parse on this game but would be nice to see somekind of ranking system tho like E,D,C,B,A,S on high difficulty content that be fun.

Because yes, we must all know whose epeen is the biggest. Who really cares about the rest of it?