Either SMN and RDM should lose their Raise or BLM should get a Raise.

[dinnertime]

There's no need to remove Swiftcast and there's no need to give BLM a Raise.

Verraise only needs adjustments to make it less powerful but still able to Raise people frequently and also quickly than others.
RDM would need some compensation by increasing their damage or increasing Embolden's effects because being a Raise dispenser is their only worth right now, or else it would just harm them even more.

BLM getting a Raise doesn't fix it and there's more creative ways to give it utility, preferrably without disturbing the BLM from doing damage.

[Llugen]

Ah and here we have another person who didn't read the thread, although to be fair it is pretty long now. Gotta love the hurdur 'splosions people.

A recast ability off-gcd would not inhibit BLM's damage/uptime in any way, would balance the infinite MP issue, could help balance the caster role pool, and could be made so that it INCREASES BLM damage upon a successful Raise.

[dinnertime]

I wouldn't waste my time reading every single post of a 23-page thread. I'm sure nobody wouldn't.

Raise is not a necessity to caster DPS whatsoever and it won't actually balance the jobs. Raise is not an off-GCD ability. Raise increasing BLM's damage after being used not only is a lazy and uncreative band aid fix, but makes no sense either.

[Kurando]

A recast ability off-gcd would not inhibit BLM's damage/uptime in any way, would balance the infinite MP issue, could help balance the caster role pool, and could be made so that it INCREASES BLM damage upon a successful Raise.

You are really picking at straws now. Just imagine it, a BLM asks another DPS to die so they can rez them and get the damage increase. No players life should have to be traded so another job can get a damage increase, but that's what would happen with this. Sounds like perfect way to increase your ff logs / parse data...

BLM needs an actual damage increase to current actions, not as a reward for raising the dead.

[Dualgunner]

You are really picking at straws now. Just imagine it, a BLM asks another DPS to die so they can rez them and get the damage increase. No players life should have to be traded so another job can get a damage increase, but that's what would happen with this. Sounds like perfect way to increase your ff logs / parse data...

BLM needs an actual damage increase to current actions, not as a reward for raising the dead.

The only hesitation I could see coming from SE's end is that if BLM is given the ability to "profit" from another player's death, it may be used for grief play or harassment in the duty finder (ex: healer allows someone to die deliberately so the BLM can use the raise and get the damage boost)

He's considered this, actually.

[Kurando]

snip

Thanks for providing that. But then it begs the question of why bring up rewards for rezzing again when clearly nothing will good would come out of it in the long run. We have trolls, greifers, bots and afkers already, I wouldn't appreciate anyone intending to die and staying dead waiting for BLM rez whilst the rest of the party is actually doing their job(s).

[Remedi]

Putting Raise into role actions probably wouldn't really pan out, as that wouldn't solve the issue of BLM having "infinite MP for raise", and that would only rob RDM/SMN of a different role pool slot that they would otherwise have right now. Remember, we really don't want BLM to Rez Dispense, so Umbral Ice + Triplecast Raise Raise Raise is pretty much exactly what we'd be trying to avoid.
.

Theoretically speaking that might happen with a raise in the role action, realistically speaking though? Probably in the same boat as Mana shift, yoiu need to be both in umbral and with triple ready to pull off something like that, not to mention that in that way you would be screwed in a movement scenario later, so wouldn't call it a win/win scenario.
Also frankly SMN has infinite MP so the eventuality of a job having high dmg infinite resource raise is already a thing to the point you are still gonna prefer him over BLM even with him having access to a normal raise

edit: I mean in that eventuality you are sacrificing a lot for the party while SMN really doesn't sacrifices that much right now

[Llugen]

Off-GCD 180s recast ability would prevent spamming it, and the player who is raised still would get Weakness/Brink, so that might be incentive enough not to sac/grief deliberately for it. Asking a player to die on purpose, particularly in the duty finder, would get you laughed at.

The job needs the option because the other two casters have the option. Indisputably, BLM is the weakest choice of caster to bring for your group for endgame/progression, and it's not even the best choice to bring for things like dungeons and 24 mans. It needs to be able to compete for the spot, and part of that is balancing the role so that all three jobs have access to raise, not just two of the three jobs. The mere fact that BLM does not have access to a raise ability is just another reason why we are currently in #deleteBLM meta right now, so we need a creative way to fix it.


...See how he is so quick to say "Raise is not an off-GCD ability"? And why does it have to continue to be that way? Why can't they design something new? There CAN be an off-GCD raise, there just isn't currently. Kinda like how Empyreal Arrow is an off-GCD GCD. The fact that you (and apparently every other hurdur 'splosions BLM) can't wrap your mind around that is staggering (no offense), including yoship himself, the supposed babby-daddy of the job who "would never let anything bad happen to his pet class" who, when asked during a live letter interview why BLM wouldn't get raise said "...It's a Black Mage". Facepalm so hard. Acknowledge that the balance is off; they obviously have no intention to remove Verraise and Resurrection from RDM and SMN, therefore, BLM needs to compete.

@Remedi Yes, and neither does RDM, really. One GCD worth of filler damage. This is another reason why the off-GCD ability makes more sense than the standard Raise GCD.

[Remedi]

My point was that we already have a infinite MP caster having access to raising, there's no need to really have any concerns about making an intricate 3 min CD raise for BLM because of possible spam reasons.
It's simply too much works for something they can simply put in the role action and call it a day (while doing the same thing for healers)especially when we have more important matters to attend to.

I still think that they should rebalance it by removing it or really moderate it, but if we really agree to add it there's no point in making extreme leaps of imagination when we can have something simple

[Llugen]

I mean SMN does have "infinite" MP for its current rotation but it still couldn't raise back to back an infinite number of times like BLM in Umbral could, because it wouldn't regen the MP back faster than it could spend it on the raises but BLM could, as long as it can upkeep the Umbral.

And really, we don't WANT simple. A GCD raise that demands Swiftcast and ruining your Astral MP table or switching immediately to Umbral not only sounds horrible due to the nature of BLM's rotation, but it's exactly what they're shying away from. The standard raise that we have in the game right now is definitely construed as white/arcane magic, and it's very true that said magic has no business being in a Black Mage's kit. As much as I don't like having to be the one forced to do it, Rez Dispenser(tm) is a design that both the devs and the players apparently like, so I don't foresee it being removed from RDM, and it's lasted on SMN/ACN this long, sooooo yep.

BLM re-balancing in general IS "the important matter to attend to", and this is a part of it, so I see no issue with "dwelling" on it. The role needs a rebalance, and the raise dilemma is a part of it.