When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

[Oscura]

I think some people in this thread need to go back to 2nd grade to learn to read.

There are plenty of people who understand the change that just don't want it.

The more I read this thread the more I shake my head, the constant "people don't understand," "people are afraid of change," constant awful sarcasm, etc etc is incredibly patronizing. This isn't hard to understand, at all. Just because in your mind, there is no reason to disagree with you, and that your argument is infallible, doesn't mean that it is.

/10charnonsense

[Reynhart]

Improperly. If perfect balance remains the way it is, consolidating the combos is impossible for Monk.

Also adresses 10 pages ago...come on...

People are whining that combos should be consolidated because of button bloat. I simply reminded them that anyone can apply "remove <blank>" for button bloat.

Do you mean that people should manually change the layout of their hotbar during combat to rotate oGCD ?

As it's been repeated multiple times, pressing different buttons in a row is not difficult nor does it require skill, so it means that we don't need multiple buttons for offensive oGCDs either.

But we still need the freedom of using them when we want in any order we want, which is not the case with combos. (Even for MNK)

Adding more offensive oGCDs does not "deepen" the experience either, nor make it more difficult.

Yes, it does, since you have more skills to include in your rotation and synergize with other skills.

They've already turned away from buff-happy oGCDs, that's why they got rid of so many crossclasses.

No, that's not why. It's to create a better balance.

Though keep ignoring that point of my post I guess.

It's because the only point you make is trying to draw parallels between GCD and oGCD, even though they are completely different in the first place.

[Miste]

snip

Sadly some people feel the need to insult and/or mock people simply because they have a different opinion or preference than they do. I usually just take it as a sign that they aren't worth my time.

[Oscura]

Also adresses 10 pages ago...come on...

I'm going to be very curt here, your awful form shift idea addresses nothing. I just really don't feel like wasting my time explaining why weaving in form shift is functionally impossible even if it was made an oGCD because of all the buttons Monk has during its opener. Especially when the crutch is "RoF slows down GCD," there are times where RoF isn't up and sometimes people need to or will PB there.

Edit: I'm just going to take a hard stance and include that as long as GL3 and PB stay the way they are, depending on your SkS tier and the existence of forms in general, combo consolidation will never work with Monk. Not unless you like clipping in the middle of Perfect Balance, which might be one of the most terrifying things I can even think of.

But we still need the freedom of using them when we want in any order we want, which is not the case with combos. (Even for MNK)

Wrong. We do not "need" anything. The same way people do not "need," to have to press multiple separate buttons for combos, people do not "need" freedom to use oGCDs in any order they want. It is purely preference, as posted here time and time again, pressing buttons in order or pressing "multiple buttons" does not create more depth, skill or difficulty. Your desire to have multiple oGCD buttons is akin to people wanting combo buttons to be separate, purely opinion and purely preference. There is no factual reason as to why aside from "it feels better to weave in multiple oGCDs," the same way as "it feels better to press combos in sequence on different buttons." There is nothing that states that we need oGCD attacks with separate cooldowns or animations.

It's because the only point you make is trying to draw parallels between GCD and oGCD, even though they are completely different in the first place.

They are really not that different. People call the extra buttons in combos fillers because they are separate skills tied to a format that is always followed. I was merely drawing the parallel that all skills, ultimately, are used in such a way that they are used "in order." There is no "difficulty," or "skill," in doing a rotation, or pressing extra buttons, so it means that there's no point in having more oGCDs than "needed." Unless, of course, it's because it feels right, or better that way, which is what people who argue against consolidation of combos are saying.

It just feels incredibly hypocritical to me.

[Reynhart]

I'm going to be very curt here, your awful form shift idea addresses nothing. I just really don't feel like wasting my time explaining why weaving in form shift is functionally impossible even if it was made an oGCD because of all the buttons Monk has during its opener.

No, please don't waste your time. And don't play NIN also...since you have to weave this kind of very quick, very short CD skills in their opener too...

as posted here time and time again, pressing buttons in order or pressing "multiple buttons" does not create more depth, skill or difficulty.

For GCD, no, it deosn't. For oGCD, it does, because skills are not tied to each other.

There is nothing that states that we need oGCD attacks with separate cooldowns or animations.

Yes, there is the fact that each oGCD has different attributes, especially, its cooldown.

I was merely drawing the parallel that all skills, ultimately, are used in such a way that they are used "in order."

Which is still wrong. When you're a PLD, all Riot Blades will comme after Fast Blades, all Royal Authorities will come after Riot Blades, etc...There is no oGCD that will always be used after another unique oGCD.

[Oscura]

No, please don't waste your time. And don't play NIN also...since you have to weave this kind of very quick, very short CD skills in their opener too...

Let's completely ignore the fact that Ninjas never double weave during their opener aside from mudras, which you yourself have already acknowledge function differently than the average oGCD. Stop comparing two separate classes, especially when you don't play one of them. Sarcasm is unbecoming.

For GCD, no, it deosn't. For oGCD, it does, because skills are not tied to each other.

Completely 100% your opinion. It adds absolutely nothing for me besides extra buttons to press.

Yes, there is the fact that each oGCD has different attributes, especially, its cooldown.

Offensive oGCDs only do damage and nothing more, it would actually be quite simple to balance the classes to function on a singular button with a reasonable cooldown.

Which is still wrong. When you're a PLD, all Riot Blades will comme after Fast Blades, all Royal Authorities will come after Riot Blades, etc...There is no oGCD that will always be used after another unique oGCD.

If you're playing your class right, you will almost always follow up with Howling Fist around 20 seconds after a Steel Peak. Elixir Field will usually be followed by a Steel Peak within 10 or so seconds. Do I really have to go and list every example of something like this to you? Just because you are not pressing the button "immediately after," does not take away from the fact you are pressing them "in sequence." The only thing that gives the illusion of "depth" is the fact that you are limited by a cooldown, the same way combos give the illusion of depth by being limited based on what step you are on.

Edit: Also by the way, not offensive oGCDs, but you literally use Brotherhood alongside Riddle of Fire every time, so you're wrong there too.

[Miste]

No, please don't waste your time. And don't play NIN also...since you have to weave this kind of very quick, very short CD skills in their opener too...

Okay I am not fully following this back and forth but, why is NIN relevant to a discussion about MNK's job mechanics?

NIN != MNK

They are different jobs and NIN is designed totally differently and it is designed where you need to use 3 oGCD (mudras) in succession like that.

MNK is not designed to use form shift during combat unless the boss has left the arena/jumped away, this is obvious since using form shift during combat is a DPS loss unless there is nothing on the field to hit.

Not to mention like I said before we are ignoring balance and fun. Does staring at the boss and spamming form shift, instead of I don't know...actually attacking the boss, just to make your PB work properly sound fun? It sounds not fun, at all, and sounds really annoying too in my opinion.

[Oscura]

Not to mention like I said before we are ignoring balance and fun. Does staring at the boss and spamming form shift, instead of I don't know...actually attacking the boss, just to make your PB work properly sound fun? It sounds not fun, at all, and sounds really annoying too in my opinion.

We are arguing on the what-if scenario, "What if form shift functioned akin to mudras as an oGCD?" The idea would function at all if it wasn't for the fact that Monk already has enough to weave as it is, especially during PB or any PB burst moments.

[Miste]

We are arguing on the what-if scenario, "What if form shift functioned akin to mudras as an oGCD?" The idea would function at all if it wasn't for the fact that Monk already has enough to weave as it is, especially during PB or any PB burst moments.

Wouldn't that still be a dps loss for MNK even if form shift was oGCD? I don't main MNK so my experience is from HW.

[Fhaerron]

So much drama here.

Didn't read it.

Anyway, on the first page I have seen that people are against it and also said that it's for people who are bad.
I have no issues with the current system, I use hotkeys and also the shift + and additionally I have a razer naga mouse which has 12 thumb buttons on it which are really heaven.
I play PLD 99,99% of the times so I will use that as an example.

1 2 3 4 5 6
Fast Blade // Savage Blade // Rage of Halone // Riot Blade // Goring Blade // Royal Authority

So I would press 1>4>5 and then 1>4>6 (two times) and then 1>4>5 again etc when DPS.
If I had 1, 2 and 3 as builder + finisher. Like 1 would be RoH, 2 would be GB and 3 would be RA.
So I would press 2 3 times and I would do Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade
Then I would press button 3 3 times and I would do Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Royal Authority.

Why would I be bad or have less skill when I would press button 3 3 times instead then having to press 1 > 4 > 6?

Back when I played RIFT in 2011 I almost only used macros. I had 5 buttons and those were all macros that had multiple skills in them and those where basically the main buttons I was spamming in fights. I had all my cooldowns skills on my hotbar though to have full control over it and also a few (I think it was like 5) normal abilities that were also on my hotbar so I had full control about when I would use them but all my other skills were in the macro and I cleared every raid playing like that (I was tank there too).

So when I read some of the comments when I played RIFT like this I'm apparently less skilled then somebody who would press 40 buttons individually?

If somebody could explain me that would be kind.


Any forms of drama will be ignored and any insults will be reported. Let's keep this nice and clean.


Edit: forgot to say that I hate PvP with a passion and as such I have never ever done any form of PvP in this game, but I did read the post of the OP.