How can tanking and healing be made more broadly useful in more "role-specific" ways?

[Rhais]

Arbitrary penalties and debuffs to force players into a rigid role fulfillment is a terrible idea.

[Hyperia]

Arbitrary penalties and debuffs to force players into a rigid role fulfillment is a terrible idea.

Hardly a terrible idea, I'm just asking people to do what they signed up to do first, then DPS after the fact. If I have to rain on a healer's DPS parade so they can keep everybody alive and not wipe a raid, I'm perfectly ok with that. As to how to deal with bad DPS, I dunno, that's something we really cant touch because parsers are forbidden and thus, we cant shine a spotlight on underperformers. It's really sad if you think about it... healers and tanks being forced to do more and more DPS just so bad DPS can carry on. Something is wrong here... but I digress. My original proposal still stands, I want healers to heal first, then DPS if everything else is ok. My idea rewards healers who want to DPS by doing their job and punishing those who want to DPS at the detriment of others.

[MoroMurasaki]

snip

So a trolling DPS can die to things and essentially wipe not only his DPS from the party but also the healer's.

Or someone can be lagging and die to things only to have the same thing happen.

I'm sorry, I've seen a lot of poor ideas, but unless we are going to somehow impliment a penalty system on the DPS players (how about you only get full exp for completing an instance if your DPS is above a certain number?) for doing stupid things this is totally unfair.

Also it implies that healing or raising a player should always be my top priority as a healer which is just untrue. Hell, several times in Shinryu EX now I've left someone dead because Swiftcast was on cooldown and the heart needed to die so I didn't have time to hardcast a raise. I help with the DPS because it is the logical priority (alive heart means a wipe) and with your suggestion any of those situations would have wiped my party.

This is just plain bad, I'm sorry.

Edit: Also just thought of O1S - the accepted strategy there is to let the party eat tge Roars before a Chrybdis because whether everyone is full or low Chrybdis is going to bring them to single digit. This is great time to DPS as a healer because there is literally no point to heal unless someone is going to die before Chrybdis casts.

It would also invalidate the Assize I usually use there, depending on how tight the group stacks I follow up my precasted Cure III/Medica II with Assize but it wouldn't really damage the boss because everyone would still be at lowish health.

The more I think about your suggestion the more I wonder if you've ever healed any "endgame" content. Everyone is free to theorycraft but you defend your stance like someone who knows what they're talking about and I don't think you do. I'm by no means any better than maybe the lowest midcore player and even I understand how bad this is.

[Shurrikhan]

Hardly a terrible idea, I'm just asking people to do what they signed up to do first, then DPS after the fact. If I have to rain on a healer's DPS parade so they can keep everybody alive and not wipe a raid, I'm perfectly ok with that. As to how to deal with bad DPS, I dunno, that's something we really cant touch because parsers are forbidden and thus, we cant shine a spotlight on underperformers. It's really sad if you think about it... healers and tanks being forced to do more and more DPS just so bad DPS can carry on. Something is wrong here... but I digress. My original proposal still stands, I want healers to heal first, then DPS if everything else is ok. My idea rewards healers who want to DPS by doing their job and punishing those who want to DPS at the detriment of others.

Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, as it boils down primarily to pedantics.

That part wouldn't actually change except insofar as you have to recalculate the point at which your throughput efficiency outweighs the modifiers placed your party members' throughput. You'd spend more globals essentially buffing others, but that's no more a healer's primary "job" -- even if eHP restoration is attached to that function -- than direct damage-dealing. Any healing this would add would already be after "everything else is ok", where there is no survival detriment. It'd doubtless create more globals of healing, but it wouldn't create any higher a focus on keeping people alive.