DPS is the job of DPS.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

Please stop cherry picking, everyone has clearly stated that if the group is capable and desires speed runs no one person should hold them back no matter the reason. The expectation all players should have when it comes to DF is that it is random. The point everyone is trying to make that you keep ignoring is that the experience of DF is randomly generated, and as such the the group gets to decide what the pace is, not one individual player.

I do agree that if players do not like the style of the group they should not try and create a negative experience for the group, or for the person by either sitting around waiting for the vote kick option, or by pulling extra packs. As players we have to come to terms with the fact that we may at times not get our ideal group, so we have certain options if the group wants to a slower paced run or a speed run either you leave or suck it up. The option of doing something to force a vote kick should never been an option since that is an extremely selfish mindset.

I mean I have been in groups were the healer asked if we could do smaller pulls simply because they did not like them, the group said w/e, about four pulls in one of the DPS got annoyed and started to pull for the tank. Though no one ever initiated a vote kick we simply just went alone since with, while myself and the tank simply did not care either way. The healer and the DPS that ended up pulling extra packs were both placed in a situation that they did not enjoy. I do think people should just speak up, and if they do not like the style of the group and majority is okay with it just leave and re-queue, use PF, or queue with one or two other players so you will be the majority. I do not understand why people have the desire to put others in positions they do not like waiting for the vote kick option since doesn't a certain amount of time have to pass before you can start a vote kick?

Barring instances where the healer or tank is severely undergeared and/or new to a duty, or instances where DPS refuse to AOE larger packs, there are people that legit refuse to pull more than one pack at a time.

It may not be popular, but I think if say the tank or healer are severely under geared they should not hold the group back if they are capable and desire a speed pull. Not saying that you do, you just brought up a point that I think many people feel that the group should work around the new player. It would be nice if they did, but no one should expect it or even think they are bad people for not wanting to deal with a new player.

I have left groups as a under geared tank since at the start I told them I have never been and my gear gear was meh, both DPS just typed out RIP. At that point I had to make a call, I could either pull small groups and make the run boring for everyone, pull larger groups and pretty much put the healer in a position due to my gear would leave the healer not as much time to DPS as they would with a geared tank, that new the place, or leave. I just left and apologized.

Though I have seen others take the other options, if the tank is under geared and does not know the place tries to do large pulls I could not image how stressful that may be for the healer since the tank did die a few times through the run. I mean we did it, and as a dps it was annoying, but bearable, not sure about the healer and since I never healed I cannot image how healing such a tank makes someone feel.

I guess what I am saying is I wish also new players did not expect the group to cater to them, if you run into a group willing to awesome, but do not expect it. If new players do run into groups that seem indifferent or showing contempt for the idea I would hope they would make a judgment call that takes everyone's feelings into account as best as they can not just their own.

[HyoMinPark]

snip

I have been in quite a few instances with undergeared tanks and healers. In the ones where they have outright apologized for their poor gear a la something like “I just returned to the game after a couple months absence”, “I just started playing a few days ago and didn’t know I could get better gear from vendors/the MB”, or “I know my gear is really poor but I’m going to try my best; if it’s not enough/too slow then feel free to replace me if you guys want a cleaner/faster run”, groups have been extremely willing to help out said person, adjusting to accommodate them. However, when a person doesn’t speak up about their poor gear, tries to do far too much for them to handle multiple times (i.e., poorly geared tank tries for larger pulls, dies, respawns, and just does the same thing again—bonus points if they acknowledge their gear is crap), people are far less willing to accommodate, and far more likely to resort to “majority rules” in the form of vote dismissal. Communication is key.

Certainly people should not expect other people to cater to them—and I know that there are players out there that do not expect that, but there are an equal amount out there that do.

Personally speaking, I will not enter a duty unless I have appropriate gear for it, and that probably comes from my experience as a healer having to heal overly enthusiastic undergeared tanks on more occasions than I would like to count. A good example is I am leveling up NIN right now, which was still in the 230 gear from Weeping City (tells you how often I played that job after it hit 60 lol). I farmed up some poetics to buy the job 260 Shire gear, and even augmented it before opting to join roulettes where I may get a duty I am not geared to handle. Same thing when I leveled DRK—she was in full 270, and I didn’t get much gear from her after Shisui, so I stuck to just doing Alliance Roulette so as to not burden a healer in Bardam’s Mettle or Doma Castle with poor gear. However, not everyone has that kind of foresight nor consideration. Only in a perfect world would such happen, and this world is anything but that. I try not to expect people to have the same kind of behavior or consideration as myself, though it would be nice.

[Awha]

Snip. . .

Yeah I agree, just I simply do not understand the mindset some players have in regard to being a new player. I mean in my example it would have been nice if the group was a tad more welcoming the fact that I was forth coming which my gear and lack of knowledge regarding the dungeon. I just do not understand why some newer players expect experience players to be willing to walk them through a new dungeon, or why some experienced players feel people should be obligated to help newer players in the game.

By no means does this mean I feel as if it gives people a free pass to berate or belittle a new player for a failed attempt. I just wish all players would come to terms with fact that DF experiences will always be random, unless you stack the odds in your favor by removing certain variables a la queuing with friends.

I mean from what I have seen the first time bonus is rather lackluster for older players, maybe if SE wanted to foster a more helpful community first time bonus should yield greater rewards that a more seasoned player may find more appealing? I do not know. Though I am indifferent with this idea because while it is nice when you run into players that are willing to adjust to new players, but by no means should we a) place that expectation on older players and b) should new players have that expectation. Helping another while nice, should never be an obligation, since when it becomes a obligation the help given will more likely be half ass and at that point it is just becomes a potential bitter experience for all parties involved.


I the end I simply do not understand how any player feels they have the right to provide a negative experience for others simply because they were not voted out of the group. Punishment should be the only thing people respond to, common courtesy should be more prevalent. Though that is a lofty ideal.

Be it the player that pulls for the tank after majority said they were okay with a slower run, or the player that does single pulls, those players that do not use their aoe in protest to large pulls etc. . . sadly I have ran into each of those types, and I am sure there are many more.