DPS is the job of DPS.

[Cakekizyy]

Haukke Manor is another where full runs aren't required for completion.

[Reynhart]

Haukke Manor is another where full runs aren't required for completion.

As are Sastasha, Tam-Tara, Copperbell, Halatali, Brayflox, Stone Vigil...
And I think people wiped Toto-Rak from their memory to keep their sanity after so many low-level roulettes

[Miste]

If the tank (or the healer) is not geared enough to survive a big pull, it doesn't matter that the three others are damant on doing a speedrun.
If the DPS can't AoE efficiently (Because, yes, low level dungeons still exist..and MNK), forcing a speedrun is not saving any time and only puts more burden on healers by removing downtimes.

That is a strawman. No one is talking about cases where a tank or healer is unable due to gear or cases where multipulls are not beneficial like in very low level dungeons. In that case yeah it doesn't matter if 3 people demand a speedrun because it isn't a realistic goal so some kind of compromise has to happen.

My examples were simply when there is no gear or experience impediment, for example, no new players, all are geared enough to do speedruns, and the job composition and/or level of the dungeon is proper where a speedrun is beneficial.. No one with even a bit of logical sense would argue about trying to force a speedrun when the tank or healer simply don't have the gear to handle it or in low levels when AoE is limited.

Enjoy your death if you do it on purpose. And good job wasting your own time because you don't want to waste your own time following the tank's pace.

You completely missed their point.

[HyoMinPark]

Enjoy your death if you do it on purpose. And good job wasting your own time because you don't want to waste your own time following the tank's pace.

Again, you’re insinuating that people need to yield to one player instead of the majority. That’s not how DF works. You work together as a team for some sort compromise on how a run should go, not just say, “Well, I’m the tank and I’m more important than you, so I decide what we do, and you just have to listen to me or be kicked. Because I’m the tank. Deal with it.” Same logic replies to the reverse, inb4 you bring that up: “I want large pulls/speed run, and I’m more important than the other 3/7 people, so you just have to listen to me. Deal with it.”

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Enjoy your death if you do it on purpose. And good job wasting your own time because you don't want to waste your own time following the tank's pace.

Have you run some of the dungeons lately? DPS jobs can handle a single pack with spot heals. It's why 2-3 packs have essentially become the normal. In fact, I did it the other day in Solm Al (hard) on AST and kept myself healed while DPSing. On just the one pull, I literally didn't touch even regen. That's how insignificant the damage is. Regardless, it has little to do with speed and the fact one pack pulls are mind numbingly boring. I can basically afk.

So if the healer decides they want larger pulls and is willing to heal through a DPS pulling. The majority has decided.

[Cakekizyy]

Do people refuse to do big pulls when capable?

[HyoMinPark]

Do people refuse to do big pulls when capable?

Yes, they do. I’ve done level 70 Expert dungeons with tanks in 330/340 gear (which is very much overkill for a dungeon like Kugane Castle) that pull one pack at a time. They are more than capable of multi-pulling.

Barring instances where the healer or tank is severely undergeared and/or new to a duty, or instances where DPS refuse to AOE larger packs, there are people that legit refuse to pull more than one pack at a time.

[Sebazy]

Can confirm, we had to clear a couple of pulls in Bardams with no tank after they had a sulk and /sat in place. I’d be lieing if it wasnt rough but we did it =o

[Shurrikhan]

Do people refuse to do big pulls when capable?

I've done the full pulls in every dungeon at minimum ilvl (just to give some extra challenge), so if someone normally geared does not, it's pretty much just refusal rather than due caution unless they or their team are of (significantly) below average skill.

[Awha]

Snip . . .

Please stop cherry picking, everyone has clearly stated that if the group is capable and desires speed runs no one person should hold them back no matter the reason. The expectation all players should have when it comes to DF is that it is random. The point everyone is trying to make that you keep ignoring is that the experience of DF is randomly generated, and as such the the group gets to decide what the pace is, not one individual player.

I do agree that if players do not like the style of the group they should not try and create a negative experience for the group, or for the person by either sitting around waiting for the vote kick option, or by pulling extra packs. As players we have to come to terms with the fact that we may at times not get our ideal group, so we have certain options if the group wants to a slower paced run or a speed run either you leave or suck it up. The option of doing something to force a vote kick should never been an option since that is an extremely selfish mindset.

I mean I have been in groups were the healer asked if we could do smaller pulls simply because they did not like them, the group said w/e, about four pulls in one of the DPS got annoyed and started to pull for the tank. Though no one ever initiated a vote kick we simply just went alone since with, while myself and the tank simply did not care either way. The healer and the DPS that ended up pulling extra packs were both placed in a situation that they did not enjoy. I do think people should just speak up, and if they do not like the style of the group and majority is okay with it just leave and re-queue, use PF, or queue with one or two other players so you will be the majority. I do not understand why people have the desire to put others in positions they do not like waiting for the vote kick option since doesn't a certain amount of time have to pass before you can start a vote kick?

Barring instances where the healer or tank is severely undergeared and/or new to a duty, or instances where DPS refuse to AOE larger packs, there are people that legit refuse to pull more than one pack at a time.

It may not be popular, but I think if say the tank or healer are severely under geared they should not hold the group back if they are capable and desire a speed pull. Not saying that you do, you just brought up a point that I think many people feel that the group should work around the new player. It would be nice if they did, but no one should expect it or even think they are bad people for not wanting to deal with a new player.

I have left groups as a under geared tank since at the start I told them I have never been and my gear gear was meh, both DPS just typed out RIP. At that point I had to make a call, I could either pull small groups and make the run boring for everyone, pull larger groups and pretty much put the healer in a position due to my gear would leave the healer not as much time to DPS as they would with a geared tank, that new the place, or leave. I just left and apologized.

Though I have seen others take the other options, if the tank is under geared and does not know the place tries to do large pulls I could not image how stressful that may be for the healer since the tank did die a few times through the run. I mean we did it, and as a dps it was annoying, but bearable, not sure about the healer and since I never healed I cannot image how healing such a tank makes someone feel.

I guess what I am saying is I wish also new players did not expect the group to cater to them, if you run into a group willing to awesome, but do not expect it. If new players do run into groups that seem indifferent or showing contempt for the idea I would hope they would make a judgment call that takes everyone's feelings into account as best as they can not just their own.