DPS is the job of DPS.

[Taika]

To those complaining about people not wanting to DPS. Please take a deep breath and try to be understanding. Things have gotten nasty in here. Keep in mind it comes down to playstyle. Some people would rather tank or heal. Some people might not want or like to DPS. That is playstyle preference, *not* laziness. They have every right to be frustrated by the game the way it is now and the expectations that is placing on people. Try and put yourself in their shoes before blasting them. Try to understand their motivations. No, I don't think a majority of them are advocating healing for 15% of the time and doing nothing else is ideal. They'd love to have things to do the other 85% of the time. Just...not DPS. And that is where this entire thing stems from.

It's ok wanting a change, for a job to play differently. But it's not ok taking a job as it is now and playing it in a way that is detrimental to your team members. It's not ok to refuse from being helpful if you're in a position where you could be, just because of your personal preferences. I may want to play an ice mage, but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I wont. I may want to play a BRD who does nothing but sings (FFXI style!), but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I wont. I may want to play a WHM who casts nothing but heals, but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I won't. If you don't like how a job plays, don't play it. Or suck it up, and keep advocating and hoping for a change. Just don't be a worse party member than you could be because of your personal preferences.

[Xerek]

It's ok wanting a change, for a job to play differently. But it's not ok taking a job as it is now and playing it in a way that is detrimental to your team members. It's not ok to refuse from being helpful if you're in a position where you could be, just because of your personal preferences. I may want to play an ice mage, but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I wont. I may want to play a BRD who does nothing but sings (FFXI style!), but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I wont. I may want to play a WHM who casts nothing but heals, but it wouldn't be fair for my party, so I won't. If you don't like how a job plays, don't play it. Or suck it up, and keep advocating and hoping for a change.

As I noted prior, though, there currently is no option. The way the game is currently laid out, the options instead are quit, or suck it up and keep advocating and hoping for a change. Me, I DPS like mad in casual content, but I feel more like a DPS with healing spells then I do a healer with DPS spells. My point was simply in regards to tanks/healers not DPSing, try and understand their motivations...it's not laziness. Your examples don't quite fit. In this case, it is a matter of people who chose tank/healer because they did not want to DPS...then being told they still need to focus on DPS primarily instead of their role. Your examples are people just doing the bare minimum for their role and would more be comparable to a healer in Expert using only Cure 1, or an AST not using cards at all. It's not the same.

[Taika]

As I noted prior, though, there currently is no option. The way the game is currently laid out, the options instead are quit, or suck it up and keep advocating and hoping for a change. Me, I DPS like mad in casual content, but I feel more like a DPS with healing spells then I do a healer with DPS spells. My point was simply in regards to tanks/healers not DPSing, try and understand their motivations...it's not laziness. Your examples don't quite fit. In this case, it is a matter of people who chose tank/healer because they did not want to DPS...then being told they still need to focus on DPS primarily instead of their role. Your examples are people just doing the bare minimum for their role and would more be comparable to a healer in Expert using only Cure 1, or an AST not using cards at all. It's not the same.

They chose a job because they wanted to play it in a way the job isn't played in this game. It's not that far from me choosing a BRD to only sing because that's how I played it in XI. If I would try to play it like that in XIV, I too would be told to either suck it up or quit. And yeah, there aren't any options, because every single job in this game only has 1 correct way of playing it. Healers and tanks aren't an exception, even though some people like to try to treat them as such (especially healers).

[Jijifli]

Snip

Ice mage is a playstyle. Pet only summoner is a playstyle. Intelligence on DRK is a playstyle choice. Singing only bards is a playstyle. Macro Monk is a playstyle.

Do you find these okay? Do you want a tank in a caster stat since it says it boosts their damage? Do you want monks macroing an entire rotation which negates greased lightning stacks? I didn't think so.

And as an extra note, here's a question. Do healers find that playstyle fun? Do you find standing there, doing nothing for an extended period of time, fun? Going to be honest when I do bother to tank. If my healer refuses to do any dps and just stand idly, I GIVE them something to do. I stop cooldowns. I start to stand in things. Because I don't see how being idle is an enjoyable part of playing a video game. If you didn't want to do anything, you'd go watch a movie, not play a game.

[Xerek]

I give up.

Did you even read my post? The part where people saying healers shouldn't DPS are not advocating 15% healing, 85% standing around? The majority would rather have more *healing* to do.

An Ice Mage is a DPS who is not using all of his DPS abilities. That is completely different.

What if incoming damage was so brutal that all DPS classes were given a heal ability or two...then expected to use it the majority of the time? Where they could only DPS a little, and if they weren't healing all the time people would yell at them? Would that feel right? Wouldn't there be yells that DPS should be DPSing? Cries of "If I wanted to heal, I'd have picked healer!", screams about lazy DPS who refuse to heal. If DPS were suddenly pressured into healing 75+% of the time I think there would suddenly be a lot more empathy. Or would all you DPS be perfectly happy being pushed into a healing role?

[Tzain]

And as an extra note, here's a question. Do healers find that playstyle fun? Do you find standing there, doing nothing for an extended period of time, fun? .

I'm going to make one suggestion. There are three times off the top of my head where you should hold your tongue and your ire for an 'idle healer'
1. Early pulls in a dungeon - Most healers are still feeling out the group and the tank. They're watching how fast your health goes down, how fast the fight is, whether the dps is standing in puddles, etc. Once they get a feel for the tanks timing, then they start to weave in damage spells.
2. Unfamiliar - This is where the healer doesnt remember/know the content, so they are playing 'conservatively'. Being extra cautious and waiting for the other shoe to drop. Reassurances for this type of healer works wonders. They just scared.
3. Timing - Sometimes, a tank is just a little bit squishy. Not Cure Spam squishy, but not resilient enough to go a GCD without healing. So you end up idle for 2 seconds because you cant spare the other .5 seconds. This is also common if the tank is taking weird spike damage that is difficult to explain. It's not a common occurrence, but I have seen it.

Other than that, there's a very strange number of mmo players that don't like playing mmos. They treat it like it's some kind of self-imposed punishment that they must do, like pushing the button on Lost.
Why they do it? No freaking idea.

[Jijifli]

An Ice Mage is a DPS who is not using all of his DPS abilities. That is completely different.

A White Mage pressing only Cure II is a healer not using all of their healing abilities. That is the same.

What if incoming damage was so brutal that all DPS classes were given a heal ability or two...then expected to use it the majority of the time? Where they could only DPS a little, and if they weren't healing all the time people would yell at them? Would that feel right? Wouldn't there be yells that DPS should be DPSing? Cries of "If I wanted to heal, I'd have picked healer!", screams about lazy DPS who refuse to heal. If DPS were suddenly pressured into healing 75+% of the time I think there would suddenly be a lot more empathy. Or would all you DPS be perfectly happy being pushed into a healing role?

>Stares at RDM and PLD

I didn't have a healer leveling my PLD. And half the time in RDM's case, we didn't have a healer either. They were too busy doing Cure II on themselves instead of the tank because clearly that's difficult. Also, the amount of times I see a RDM get screamed at for Vercure and Verraise, even when they're under the levels for them, is quite high. If we have an expectation of a dps to use their kit, we should have an expectation for others to too.

Why is it fair for a healer and tank to get lazy? If tanks and healers are doing the bare minimum it's okay, but in your own example, a BLM do bare minimum isn't. After all, Ice Mage is still doing their job, to dps right?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

As I noted prior, though, there currently is no option. The way the game is currently laid out, the options instead are quit, or suck it up and keep advocating and hoping for a change. Me, I DPS like mad in casual content, but I feel more like a DPS with healing spells then I do a healer with DPS spells. My point was simply in regards to tanks/healers not DPSing, try and understand their motivations...it's not laziness. Your examples don't quite fit. In this case, it is a matter of people who chose tank/healer because they did not want to DPS...then being told they still need to focus on DPS primarily instead of their role. Your examples are people just doing the bare minimum for their role and would more be comparable to a healer in Expert using only Cure 1, or an AST not using cards at all. It's not the same.

I understand. I, too, wish FFXIV offered more actual tank and healer mechanics in lieu of making them glorified DPS. They don't. Stubbornly persisting with a playstyle the current system isn't designed around—regardless what the devs claim—just annoys everyone else. Unfortunately, they are far too concerned with making everything easy, thus they aren't willing to scale up outgoing damage or make fight encounters less predictable. Until that changes, I would recommend another game that better suits what you're looking for because this argument will never end.

[Xerek]

I understand. I, too, wish FFXIV offered more actual tank and healer mechanics in lieu of making them glorified DPS. They don't. Stubbornly persisting with a playstyle the current system isn't designed around—regardless what the devs claim—just annoys everyone else. Unfortunately, they are far too concerned with making everything easy, thus they aren't willing to scale up outgoing damage or make fight encounters less predictable. Until that changes, I would recommend another game that better suits what you're looking for because this argument will never end.

I don't need to look elsewhere. I'm fine DPSing away. I was just trying to advocate a little sympathy and understanding for those who say tanks/healers shouldn't have to DPS. And in explaining why they feel that way, maybe get people to see that mindset is not borne of laziness. My words, however, have fell on mostly deaf ears. The responses not actually addressing what I'm saying. So, I will at least agree this arguement will never end, and remove myself from it.

[Keicho]

NO. when only dd has to do dmg it would do it a MASS easier. so no thx! all do dmg.