It's past time, Yoshi-P...

[SuperZay]

I maybe not using the dmg skills (and i realy refuse to do this as a healer)

Why would you refuse to use 1/3 of your abilities? This game has no pure healing jobs like some other MMOs and developers gave you all these attack spells for a reason - to help your party when there's downtime and no need for healing. Also you are wrong about bad DDs and tanks, no static will ever keep them if they don't pull their weight.

[Missbone]

Why would you refuse to use 1/3 of your abilities? This game has no pure healing jobs like some other MMOs and developers gave you all these attack spells for a reason - to help your party when there's downtime and no need for healing. Also you are wrong about bad DDs and tanks, no static will ever keep them if they don't pull their weight.

Well as you can guess i dont play in any static, i allways use the dungeonfinder. As for the question why i only heal, maybe u dont will understand this but i like to focus on my role (in every game and every mmo). Its allready sometimes challenging for me to mange the hp bars, if i would now also start with dmg not only mana would run faster out (sometimes if the team is bad it realy finish a bossfight with 0-1% mana left) it also would increase the amount of concentration i need to keep things under controll and would increase the chance for mistakes. This is nothing you can compare to the playstyle of a tank or healer. Both only need to keep one enemy in target and spaming their skills, watching hp bar of the enemy all the time is also not realy necessary.

As healer you need to watch the hp bars all the time, if you now add the dps role to it you also need to switch between friendly and enemy units all the time, this allone increases the chance for mistakes. Adding a half Dps role to healer increases the need for higher concentration at player more than it need to be. There is a reason that there is as good as no other mmo that do things this way and just because someone made this stupid design choice that dosnt mean i nead to except it. Of course healer classes in other mmos have also some dmg skills, but there are meant for the solo part of the game where you do quests or farm something. I have never ever seen in any other mmo that their people that expect you to do dmg as healer. If you want place a dot or cast 1-2 dmg skills because its a bit easier at the moment its your choice, but no one will force you to do so (not even in raids or stuff like that).

[F_Maximillian]

Well as you can guess i dont play in any static, i allways use the dungeonfinder. As for the question why i only heal, maybe u dont will understand this but i like to focus on my role (in every game and every mmo). Its allready sometimes challenging for me to mange the hp bars, if i would now also start with dmg not only mana would run faster out (sometimes if the team is bad it realy finish a bossfight with 0-1% mana left) it also would increase the amount of concentration i need to keep things under controll and would increase the chance for mistakes. This is nothing you can compare to the playstyle of a tank or healer. Both only need to keep one enemy in target and spaming their skills, watching hp bar of the enemy all the time is also not realy necessary.

As healer you need to watch the hp bars all the time, if you now add the dps role to it you also need to switch between friendly and enemy units all the time, this allone increases the chance for mistakes. Adding a half Dps role to healer increases the need for higher concentration at player more than it need to be. There is a reason that there is as good as no other mmo that do things this way and just because someone made this stupid design choice that dosnt mean i nead to except it. Of course healer classes in other mmos have also some dmg skills, but there are meant for the solo part of the game where you do quests or farm something. I have never ever seen in any other mmo that their people that expect you to do dmg as healer. If you want place a dot or cast 1-2 dmg skills because its a bit easier at the moment its your choice, but no one will force you to do so (not even in raids or stuff like that).

To start with, not all games play the same. Every game has different flows to combat etc; so you can't really stick a one size fits all label on a given role. I think this is a major cause of why people aren't willing to move out of their comfort zone because they're trying to do the same thing they did on another game when ff is different from others. You can deny how things are all you want but you'll probably keep having problems because not everyone is accepting of someone who won't try to adapt to their current situation.

I did look you up on the lodestone and it seems like you're a WHM as your main healer. WHM has gotten some incredible mp management abilities with stormblood and their healing both single target and aoe is top notch to the point of overkill in some cases. There's a ton of information out there that will help you improve and I'm sure most of the people "harrassing" you would be more than happy to help you get more comfortable with healing in this game. If you try to branch out a little bit and at least get more comfortable with the healing part of ff14 you'll probably get alot fewer complaints.

All classes need to focus on multiple things in this game, dps classes get utility skills that require them to target other party members as do tanks. All classes are responsible for monitoring their own enmity and managing it with provided cooldowns. There's mechanics in many dungeons that forces people of all roles to focus on multiple things at a time. I admit that it's not very easy to break into for newer players or people who aren't used to trying to go above the bare minimum of their roles but eventually you'll get used to it. In practice, if you were to simply switch the hotkeys you had your heals on with damage spells instead you would most likely be pushing the exact same buttons you are now with around the same frequency. It's not like people are asking you to go from playing a violin to a 12 string guitar, they're just asking you to hit buttons in slightly different locations.

I wish people would stop feeling "attacked" and "harassed" when most of the time the so-called harassment is merely people asking them to put in a bit more effort or just not ignore 1/3rd or more of their class because of functional fixedness. I've been playing for a few years now and only rarely have I seen what would actually constitute harassment over things like healer dps or tanks using/not using tank stance. There are jerks in the raiding community that go by logs for everything and judge people in all content but most aren't like that. Just like not every healer that doesn't dps or every tank that doesn't drop their tank stance is lazy. When you play with others you have to find a middle ground, that's the basis of cooperation no matter what the setting is. Those that dig their heels in and are unwilling to compromise are wrong no matter what their position is.

[Missbone]

snip

Well thanks for explaining, but i think im doing pretty fine when it comes to healing. As mentioned the oom thing happend only in a very few chases where overall team perfomance whas realy bad, so the mana thing is not my real problem. When im queing as healer its because i want to heal and i refuse to use any dmg skill (except it refills my mana or stuff like that) while im in a healrole. If people cant handle that im only focusing on what a healers job is (its the same in every mmo no matter how the playstyle is) thats not my problem. Just because a healer has also dmg skills for solo content it dosnt mean that he needs to use them while in group. Have ever read sutch nonses about healers in any other mmo? Maybe SE should simply increase the manacost multiplier for dmg skills in dungeons and raids by 3x or 4x, maybe than people will understand that its not a healers job to do dmg. Damage from healers should be allways only be optional (if the healer feels like it) and never a must have.

Btw. if you only spam AOE heal like some people here say you will run out oom very fast and it will be harder to keep the tank alive because they are not so strong as the singel target spells.

But maybe i should also start explaining DDs and Tanks how they should play there class if they dont perform how i like. Im sure i will make many friends this way.

[Paladinleeds]

But maybe i should also start explaining DDs and Tanks how they should play there class if they dont perform how i like. Im sure i will make many friends this way.

I suggest you look up my lodestone. All healers 70. A tank 70, and some DDs 70. I'm not going to go into the nitty gritty of the DDs since I'm not the best at them. However, in FF games past, healers have always traditionally been able to pump out decent damage and healing, and this carried over to FFXIV. Here's the thing though, damage dealing is actually a form of mitigation. Less healing needed overall. And besides, I know WoW is pushing healers to do DPS as well, due to overall tuning there. But that's nothing compared to the damage a FFXIV healer can do. You're expected to do more damage here. Also, to note, even in Ex trials, I'm doing damage as a healer. Not as much as in a dungeon, but still doing it. I'm midcore at best. I'm not hardcore, I'm mostly casual actually. I'm still doing it. Trying to compare this game to other MMOs won't work, it has its own structure and its own way of working. Either adapt, accept the problems you'll have with the community for not adapting, or quit. It's that simple.

Now, I will add if you can't adapt due to disability, that's a different kettle of fish (and most of the community are understanding where something like disability gets in the way of someone's playstyle, reasonable adjustments and all that), but a simple "I won't DPS because it's not my job" is the wrong attitude to take and will get you into problems. Also, expect people to remember your name from the forums and kick on sight from duty as soon as they can due to playstyle differences you admitted to (oh, and playstyle differences is a valid reason to kick so a GM won't side with you).

[Missbone]

snip

It seems you didng got the joke and why should i care about your loadstone? Do you whant me to see how big your d...g is or what? Oo Im also aware how it works in the other FF Parts, but that dosnt mean that something that works in an offline game is as good in an mmo. Good for you if you are to do dmg in a group, but like i said for a healer this allways should be optional and never a must have.

[Fyce]

If people cant handle that im only focusing on what a healers job is (its the same in every mmo no matter how the playstyle is) thats not my problem.

Actually it is, because the one who is subject to being votekicked for standing around doing nothing is you.

Just because a healer has also dmg skills for solo content it dosnt mean that he needs to use them while in group.

And why do you think that these skills are only made for solo content? That's a completly absurd thing to say in a MMORPG where most content added to the game is multiplayer.

Have ever read sutch nonses about healers in any other mmo? Maybe SE should simply increase the manacost multiplier for dmg skills in dungeons and raids by 3x or 4x, maybe than people will understand that its not a healers job to do dmg. Damage from healers should be allways only be optional (if the healer feels like it) and never a must have.

Don't play a Final Fantasy game if you don't want "healers" not to have damage spells.

But maybe i should also start explaining DDs and Tanks how they should play there class if they dont perform how i like. Im sure i will make many friends this way.

Your own personal views on what should be doing each roles in Final Fantasy XIV don't override how the game is actually designed.
It's not because you only want to heal that the game should give you what you want.

It's your responsability to find a game which suits your needs, not the other way around. Especially in a multiplayer game.

I don't need to justify why I play this game to you. I will simply say that enjoying a game in part means to also point out areas that need improvement.

We are not speaking about a minor issue, but a whole design decision which impact the entire game's battle system and classes. What you're asking is not an "improvement", it's a complete overhaul. And that's not a reasonable thing to ask.
Besides, since it's a sujective preference, for other people it may not be an "improvement" at all. So, again, deal with it or find another game.

[Naunet]

And why do you think that these skills are only made for solo content? That's a completly absurd thing to say in a MMORPG where most content added to the game is multiplayer.

Because a player has to be able to quest through the MSQ regardless of starting job. This is how it works in other MMOs, so it's not unreasonable for someone to presume that's how it works in FFXIV.

Now, does FFXIV work a bit differently? Yes. There's very little actual healing demand, which has resulted in an expectation of healer DPS in order for healers to fully contribute to the group. Is it wrong for someone to expect healers to heal? No.

[Fyce]

Because a player has to be able to quest through the MSQ regardless of starting job. This is how it works in other MMOs, so it's not unreasonable for someone to presume that's how it works in FFXIV.

Now, does FFXIV work a bit differently? Yes. There's very little actual healing demand, which has resulted in an expectation of healer DPS in order for healers to fully contribute to the group. Is it wrong for someone to expect healers to heal? No.

Nobody is saying that healers shouldn't heal. What people are saying is that given how FFXIV is designed, healers shouldn't heal all the time.
If you want to use strawman arguments, at least try to make them harder to debunk.

And, again, it's not a simple "expectaction", it's how the game is designed. You are not only arguing against the people who like the way things are, but you are arguing against the game itself.

Im also aware how it works in the other FF Parts, but that dosnt mean that something that works in an offline game is as good in an mmo.

Not all games are the same. Including MMORPGs. If this one is designed around the fact that you have downtime to use damage spells, then that's how it is. Again, you are trying to make a general rule out of a subjective preference. That's absurd.
Final Fantasy XIV plays like Final Fantasy XIV. Saying "but in some other games healers only heal!" is completly irrelevant. Nobody cares about how it's done in other games. They have no authority to dictate anything, nor do you.

[Miste]

When im queing as healer its because i want to heal and i refuse to use any dmg skill (except it refills my mana or stuff like that) while im in a healrole. If people cant handle that im only focusing on what a healers job is (its the same in every mmo no matter how the playstyle is) thats not my problem.

A lot of people don't like players with this kind of attitude and it is for good reasons.

If you are unwilling to compromise at all then don't be surprised if others don't compromise for you and therefore kick you out of their party since you purposefully refuse to do any DPS on healer and not due to lack of skill. You simply believe that since you are healer you don't have to do DPS even though you could to help.

Why should players who expect healers to do at least a little DPS compromise for you if you are unwilling to ever compromise for them?