The state of SAM, BLM, and MNK is disappointing. "Selfish" isn't viable in this game.

[ManuelBravo]

No matter how we look at it people are going to complain one way of another. They balance one and nerf another. It's all in the way people are influence or they perceive it. Some will complain it's not fair, others will say it is, blah blah blah in the end only one thing matters. IF you want to play that job deal with it until enough people complain and ruin it for another set of players who play other jobs.

[Komaru_Tatoro]

The only reason it isn't
....

too log to quote

this is straight up one of the best post to explain about whether personal dps buff or add a raid buff utility.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is stupid. The devs balanced the selfish jobs fine. It's not their fault that players are moving the goalposts from "clear hard content" to "clear hard content as fast as possible to rank on an unoffical leaderboard."

Did they? So you have no complaints with two jobs offering no raid utility whatsoever getting out-DPS'd by a job that not only buffs the raid but also raises people if needed? How about two jobs having their respective gauges easily reapplied while their counterpart has to cross their fingers and pray they take excess damage, hope the potential vulnerability stack doesn't kill them later or lose a huge portion of said damage.

Yes, sounds totally balanced.

[RiyahArp]

Yes, it's balanced. The difference in damage is relatively minor and is no barrier to clearing, and the added utility really isn't that necessary save for a brief time in progression. People here are bored, and keep focusing on minor differences to complain about, leading to an endless see-saw of minor changes that rotate which job has a slight edge over another. They ignore the fact that if they were forced to accept a random sample of jobs at any time to beat hard raids, they generally could beat it with no real change in difficulty.

People here need to stop obsessing over speedruns, and ultimate content. You will never balance jobs to be effective at those equally.

[Silver-Strider]

Yes, it's balanced. The difference in damage is relatively minor and is no barrier to clearing, and the added utility really isn't that necessary save for a brief time in progression. People here are bored, and keep focusing on minor differences to complain about, leading to an endless see-saw of minor changes that rotate which job has a slight edge over another. They ignore the fact that if they were forced to accept a random sample of jobs at any time to beat hard raids, they generally could beat it with no real change in difficulty.

People here need to stop obsessing over speedruns, and ultimate content. You will never balance jobs to be effective at those equally.

If you think that SMN doing comparable damage to BLM while having utility for days or MNK getting screwed out of GL while DRG gets to keep Blood of the Dragon is fair, your idea of balanced is highly obscured.

[wereotter]

I will just put this out there as a thought:

When it comes to this discussion, if bards and machinists did blunt damage instead of piercing damage, then monk would be meta. Yes Battle Litany and Dragon Sight are very good support abilities, but with monks now having Brotherhood, which is a slight step down from Battle Litany, the primary reason you bring a dragoon is so your ranged physical jobs can do more damage. If you wanted to have some of these jobs have more synergy, then there needs to be another job that does blunt damage that doesn't innately have a blunt resistance down ability, so perhaps a hammer-wielding tank class?

When it comes to the other two jobs, Samurai has a niche place for support in the event that you're running a group with dark knight/paladin/dragoon/bard/caster in that it's slashing debuff does still provide support. Yes, it's not unique support, but it's still there. And Black Mages are uniquely able to use Mana Shift without any detriment, which is a good healer support ability. Yes we could ask for more support on these jobs, but let's not forget that's what monks were asking for in order to be more viable in Heavensward, and now the job is kind of in limbo with having lower damage and a little support, but not enough of either to be viable.

The jobs could, in theory, be pushed even further into massive DPS machines, but I think that Square is afraid that if they do so that certain fights would be too easy, or that the players would consider the jobs to be mandatory. Don't know what the right answer here is. But in the end, I think the problem actually comes from the idea of "meta" group comps. All the content should be clearable with all party options, and if that's the case, people need to stop stressing over their idea they must bring certain jobs and exclude certain other jobs.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yes, it's balanced. The difference in damage is relatively minor and is no barrier to clearing, and the added utility really isn't that necessary save for a brief time in progression. People here are bored, and keep focusing on minor differences to complain about, leading to an endless see-saw of minor changes that rotate which job has a slight edge over another. They ignore the fact that if they were forced to accept a random sample of jobs at any time to beat hard raids, they generally could beat it with no real change in difficulty.

People here need to stop obsessing over speedruns, and ultimate content. You will never balance jobs to be effective at those equally.

You are confusing balance with viability. No one is asking for every job to be speed run equip nor is Ultimate even a factor. We're talking about jobs that do comparably less damage and offer nothing to compensate for it. Black Mages are inferior at every aspect to Summoners. There is literally nothing they do or offer that a Summoner doesn't do better. Likewise, Dragoon and Ninja can refresh BotD and Huton with a single button press every 30 or 20 seconds, respectively. Monks' equivalent is on a three minute CD and there are fights where they're all but guaranteed to lose their stacks. If you see no issues here, you have a strange concept on balance.

[Remedi]

And Black Mages are uniquely able to use Mana Shift without any detriment, which is a good healer support ability.

Tbh as of now SMN can do the same, more freely and if I'm not wrong without a dps loss

[Silver-Strider]

I will just put this out there as a thought:

When it comes to this discussion, if bards and machinists did blunt damage instead of piercing damage, then monk would be meta. Yes Battle Litany and Dragon Sight are very good support abilities, but with monks now having Brotherhood, which is a slight step down from Battle Litany, the primary reason you bring a dragoon is so your ranged physical jobs can do more damage. If you wanted to have some of these jobs have more synergy, then there needs to be another job that does blunt damage that doesn't innately have a blunt resistance down ability, so perhaps a hammer-wielding tank class?.

Honestly speaking, if they had made MCH deal Blunt Damage, it could have opened the Meta up a little. MCH might have fallen out of favor from the current meta but it would've potentially open up a MNK+MCH comp that could work as well as DRG+BRD.

I'm not against them adding in new jobs with Blunt Damage either though.

[Rakhabit]

This is stupid. The devs balanced the selfish jobs fine. It's not their fault that players are moving the goalposts from "clear hard content" to "clear hard content as fast as possible to rank on an unoffical leaderboard."

It's not just about "clearing hard content as fast as possible to rank on an unofficial leaderboard"

As long as hard enrages exist, you're best serving your party by playing whatever job combination will bring the highest raid DPS. As long as hard enrages exist, every bit of extra DPS your party can do will give you breathing room to make mistakes and still clear the fight before enrage.