The state of SAM, BLM, and MNK is disappointing. "Selfish" isn't viable in this game.

[Nominous]

At least not right now. And to be clear, I mean "Selfish" in the sense that the devs used to describe Jobs that are meant to fulfill a "Pure highest damage" role. I like to play these Jobs (at least MNK and SAM), but they're in a pretty... discouraging and disappointing place. And no more, "This Job can clear this content, so it's fine." That's a low bar to set.

If other Jobs complain about "Fun factor" and "Being clunky", then I feel that the same complaints can be had for SAM, BLM, and MNK. Except, for said Jobs, it'd be in regards to the way that the game is currently designed, as opposed to Job-specific, or rotation-based deficiencies (and MNK kind of experiences both, depending on your point of view).

The overwhelming majority of the content in this game is party-based. And most of the game's battle design is focused on bolstering variety, and teamwork within that party. Limit break is affected by bringing more than one of the same role. You're given stat bonuses for different Jobs being in the party. Cross-Role abilities almost entirely focus around helping the party around you. All this to say- I think it's a fair assumption that the community values teamwork very highly. And it's fair that they do, because that's pretty much the standard that we've been given.

Now I can only speak for myself, but it feels terrible to walk into a party, and know that someone, or maybe even the entire party, is being forced to miss out on something. If I'm not a DRG, that BRD is missing a chunk of their damage. If I'm not a NIN, the party is missing TA, and simpler aggro management. I think a lot of people playing these Jobs think, "What SAM/BLM/MNK can't bring to the table", but I think the more potent way of looking at it is, what you're potentially taking away by joining a party, MNK to a lesser extent only because of Brotherhood. It sucks having to approach things with that mentality, but that's how it is.

And really, there's no middle-ground in this game. You either have support features, or you don't. And if you don't, well, apparently it's because it's their 'playstyle'? They should rethink the 'unique' playstyle for these Jobs if that's the case. Because as it stands, it's only 'unique' in efforts to stand out from the homogenization of the support/utility on everyone else. Unique, because it lacks what others have. Through that lens, it's easy (at least in my opinion) to see this flawed aspect of the Jobs. To see why they're not really preferred for... well, anything really.

Please, SE. Rethink your strategy with these Jobs.

[Hugowulf]

I don’t think they are selfish. More so those jobs help clear content faster. It seems you don’t want people to play a job they enjoy.

[Nominous]

I don’t think they are selfish. More so those jobs help clear content faster. It seems you don’t want people to play a job they enjoy.

I pretty much only play SAM, MNK, and now have picked up BRD. Out of SAM/BLM/MNK, none "Clear content faster". Certainly not in a progression sense, and almost certainly not in a 'speedkill' comp. MNK is only acceptable because Brotherhood keeps them favorable, but not preferable.

[ManuelBravo]

Hmmm while you do make a very good point about DPS being selfish you do have to look at it from a wider picture and the player base. Here are some examples;

While it is true that this game needs party co operation, to an extend, there are vast of players with different play styles; If an individual is looking for a specific type of balance their only option is to rely on building their own group using FC members, friends that they have made, or party finder system. If they choose to use auto setup ups such as roulette or auto pairing features they must keep in mind wait times and roles vary. Tanks / Healers seem to be the most wanted do to the variety of DPS. Be it support type or not they still fall under the category of DPS. While it may seem unfair, Tank and Healer roles are the only mandatory component when using an auto party setup unless creating a party demanding roles is involved. DPS just happens to be a luck of the draw. How a party reacts to that set up and how they communicate determines many factors of success. True most older content can ignore mechanics now a days, however each player has their own mentality. Not the whole community values teamwork unfortunately unless it is really needed and have no choice, as for what I have experience with FC's , dungeons, and raids. To single out SAM, BLM, and MNK is inaccurate. While at times some roles seem to give more of an advantage they players skill is a major factor. Call me selfish if you like, but some of us like to go in, get it done, and move on. Some of us are limited on time and want to make the most of it, now if the party's healer or tank is fairly new, or can't handle the pressure it would be nice if they speak out. After all no one is a mind reader, however we could get an idea based on the gear and performance.

[Nominous]

To single out SAM, BLM, and MNK is inaccurate. While at times some roles seem to give more of an advantage they players skill is a major factor. Call me selfish if you like, but some of us like to go in, get it done, and move on.

I think looking at the big picture shows said Jobs to be in a situation that definitely sees them singled out. It's simple. Out of all the DPS, only 2 operate on a no-support mindset, MNK being a kind of weird inbetween due to brotherhood limitations. That establishes a sort of non-reinforced, but definitely visible, standard. Strictly speaking, anyway. Do you prefer the standard, or do you prefer a scenario in which you lack? The answer is simple as to what to exclude, if ever, and it shouldn't be.

Realistically speaking, the game will never become so unbalanced to where you have to worry about viability. It's a slippery slope though. The worry, is when this kind of apathy is applied when balance is questioned. You're right. You can clear content and move on. But without feedback, (and sometimes, even with it), fun-factor can suffer on a case-by-case basis. It's the cycle of an MMO, but I don't think it's a worthless endeavor.

[Cynfael]

I don’t think they are selfish. More so those jobs help clear content faster. It seems you don’t want people to play a job they enjoy.

As the OP suggests, "selfish" in this context simply means "emphasis on personal DPS; little or no party buffing."

It's a long-running complaint that Jobs are valued based on how they synergize damage-wise with a specific comp, which puts Jobs like BLM and SAM on a lower tier whenever their personal DPS output isn't high enough in comparison to other Jobs' personal DPS + raid contribution to make them desirable.

Even RDM, the initial darling of the 4.x raid scene, is starting to experience this since their utility is weak when people don't make mistakes. Their damage ceiling is already comparatively low, and Embolden really isn't all that, so as soon as players feel comfortable that they don't need the backup rez and clutch heals for progression, RDM loses its shine.

[ManuelBravo]

Realistically speaking, the game will never become so unbalanced to where you have to worry about viability. It's a slippery slope though. The worry, is when this kind of apathy is applied when balance is questioned. You're right. You can clear content and move on. But without feedback, (and sometimes, even with it), fun-factor can suffer on a case-by-case basis. It's the cycle of an MMO, but I don't think it's a worthless endeavor.

As I had mentioned different players see it in different ways. A good example is people who do relics. After so many runs, and burn outs certain things make us want to do things faster. We understand not everyone has the same mentality, in some cases however people need to learn that online experience varies by player and not everyone has patience. If they don't like the set up they can black list or create their own simple as that. As for the jobs I've seen SAM , MNK, and BLM be over powered by other jobs and vise a versa. Skill plays a major role to the potential that a job can display and being that your in Balmung, known for hardcore gamer base / RP / and such ( including trolls ) don't realize this. True with the expansion of cross data centers party building different styles are mixed in the bottom line is everyone will complain that one job is over powered by other no matter what. I know most people want a trophy now a days for just trying, however if people are complaining so much about and are still able to play it well enough it's not really an issue that it hinders them enough to not play the job. Just like it's been done before they will tweak it and nerf others. Now it is SAM, BLM, and MNK, ( in your eyes ) then its DRK war, PLD, then all others in a never ending circle. Personally I love having a good challenge and if it lacks certain things I turn the situation around by my own means. It's more fun that way anyways when at the end of it all you make people see potential other than some excuse of why you lack certain things.

MNK does have a nice DPS that can par with SAM and BLM, same could be said with DRG and NIN, hell even RDM shows a lot of potential. It just varies on play style, how well you know your jobs CD and abilities.

[RLofOBFL]

MNK is okay from a damage standpoint, if you look at the top 10 speed kills of each tier sometimes you'll see a MNK. BH is a good utility(could use work) and it has very high personal dps, sometimes rivalling SAM.

BLM and SAM do comparable amounts of damage, sometimes a tad more, but they pale in comparison to MNK, more so to any ranged class, DRG or NIN.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To single out SAM, BLM, and MNK is inaccurate. While at times some roles seem to give more of an advantage they players skill is a major factor.

When balancing jobs, equivalent skill must always be applied. You don't compare a 95% Monk with a 70% Dragoon but look at both jobs at their highest potential. Doing so, Samurai's higher personal DPS pales in comparison to the DPS Bards and Machinists loss without a Dragoon present. Black Mage offers literally nothing a Summoner doesn't do better. And while not as severe, Monk still lags behind. Basically, the devs either need to embrace job synergy and encourage different pairings or remove it entirely.

Put another way, if you're a Bard main and join a static without a Dragoon. You will always do 300-500 DPS less regardless of your skill or performance.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Basically, the devs either need to embrace job synergy and encourage different pairings or remove it entirely.

Thats all folks.